"What do you think?" - a general thread for interpretations and emotions [Archive]

Amdee

April 23rd, 2010, 10:49 AM

Nats

April 23rd, 2010, 11:13 AM

Ooooh brain food, good idea Amdee! :laugh: I need those mind cogs to start running.

First of all, let me get this out. I've realised recently that this band takes up more of my time and thought than anything else I know of. They are so ingrained in me, such second nature to me, that not having them, not having the discussions I've had, not having any of that, is unthinkable for me. Not to say I don't think about anything else in life, but to observe and seem to know someone so well as the boys, when in reality I don't know them at all, is amazing imo.

That being said, let's get to business.

What the boys imagined, and what they have, they probably think it's better and worse at the same time. Better cause they were teenage boys who didn't know how their life would progress, and worse because they see now it's not a bed of roses. Sure, their dream of performing is coming true, and they thrive on that. The twins, or should I say, Bill, lives off the fame. He'd a fame junkie now.

It makes me feel a mixture of emotions. Sympathy, for their way of life which is so strange to me, who lives a pretty normal one. Admiration, for them sticking to it and making it this far. Gratefullness for the music they give us. Annoyance because they are putting themselves in their own trap. Anger because there isn't much they can do about it now without dealing a great damage to their empire.

It's all really jumbled. I'm sad for their caged life, but also happy for them. I admire their faith in themselves, but I'd also wish they could see some sense.

Amdee

April 23rd, 2010, 11:27 AM

Oh Nats! I couldn't agree you more!

It's so huge mixture. I don't know, it's like a rollercoaster, speeding up, rding ast and high and it has done so for so long, but at the same time it rides high and fast, it will end up diving equally hard and deep for them in a way. Not saying that it will tecjnically disappear, but what I'm afraid of, is that the dive is going to be more or less hard for them (again for Bill) to handle. It tends to be like that: fast and furios lift, fast and furious ride, fast and furious dive. Bill needs this, probably most of the band, but especially him. This is his life. And I sometimes wonder how he deals with the fact that his childhood dream isn't that dream he might have thought when he was younger.

But.. I don't know if I can say anything after your statement, because it said everything. Thank you.

I also understand the passion TH creates. I personally have a way to live that I take something close to my heart and it becomes everything to me for a certain time until I feel like I've gnawed it to the bones, speculated, lived it the fullest. I fel like TH is on that phase for m,e right now... I can't really see it calming down anytime soon and I hope it never will compöletely, but I've seen myself doing this again and again and again. It just comes to reasonable limits, that's all. Right now it steals quiyte a huge part of me in many ways, but yet I know it won't do that forever. My love stays, I just give up the overrunning passion... which is only a good thing. Anyways, I NEED my passion for something, because it's the drive for me in life.

Nats

April 23rd, 2010, 11:42 AM

Thanks! :mrgreen: Yes I need that passion about TH, it keeps me sane because in an odd way, my life would be extremely mundane without them. I'm not depending my life on them, but still... they are like a thrilling hobby, to put it lightly. :laugh: Some people will spend years of their lives, hours, days, months, blood and tears, to build a battleship out of toothpicks. I choose to be a fan of Tokio Hotel. :laugh:

I have a vague suspicion that Bill is the force behind this band. Not so much as an image, (which he is, but that's besides the point), but for aspiration. G and G are more in it for the music, the passion of playing. The side dish of fame and glitter doesn't do anything for them. That's up to the twins, Bill more so than Tom, I'd say.

Tom strikes me as a more grounded individual. When compared to Bill who always strives for higher and better. I can picture him rallying up the boys to do so-and-so show and he'd do all the pep talks. To make TH better, better, better. I suspect without Bill's say in the matter, TH wouldn't be nearly as big as they are now.

Which pains me because Bill is taking him and his comrades down into the deep dark pool of fame. He's not gonna resurface easily. And no matter how much he says that his family won't allow it if he changed, I think somewhere deep down, he has, a little bit. Not in a bad way, just... different. Fame orientated.

FairyWings

April 23rd, 2010, 02:49 PM

Ooh! lovely thread! :]

Well I've come to think for a while now that I cannot feel bad for the boys in any way. Sure, they've put up with a lot of nasty crap they shouldn't have had to deal with, but the truth is, this is life for everyone else. Every day people go through a lot of sh*t. That's life.

I've been a TH fan for over 2 years and, like many other people, I've taken many things about them to heart when maybe I shouldn't have. But we're only human and we care. Still, we can't do anything to prevent them from screwing up or to take the blows for them, no matter how much we don't want them to hurt. We even try to do these things with our loved ones but it simply doesn't work out that way. Every one has to live and let live.

I believe one learns to appreciate the good things in life when they go through rough times as well, otherwise we don't give a sh*t. Everyone needs to hurt a little in order to value and take care of the good stuff. Life's a rollercoaster and we learn to enjoy the ride.

As for the whole fandom thing.. haha.. I like to think of it as if I were in a relationship with this whole fandom. It's like I'm in love. It's only been growing since day one and sometimes I feel like there's nothing better than this and some other days I just don't even want to have to do anything with it. I don't see it dying out anytime soon, either.

I said the same thing about Harry Potter, btw. But after 6 passionate years of frantically re-greading the books, learning movie dialogues, quoting lines, visiting websites, taking house quizzes (Slytherin, betch! :laugh: ) buying videogames, clothing articles, magazines, etc.. I can finally say the love flame is dying down betwee us. He's still a good friend of mine, though, that Potter bloke xD... but that's already another topic.

Amdee

April 23rd, 2010, 03:24 PM

All I can do is nod here furiously "yes, yes, yes!" :laugh:

@Nats,

I do think that Bill is the driving force. I do think this *waves around* is mostly Bill's dream. Like you said, it's really not what G's need, I don't think so. They could be very well happy without all this circus for what I see.

Then there is Tom. I don't know how to word it. I don't say that Tom doesn't want this or that he is in BIll's leash, but part of me thinks that Bill is like a catalyzer to Tom. Bill's needs, dreams and wants quickly become to his dreams, needs and wants. They are kind of guiding each other, processing each other's needs and I feel that Bill's determined passion for this, his addiction to this is guiding Tom's interests into this. Like they've said, they can be like a one person and because of that I think they automatically also change each other, they are programmed to reach for the fulfillment not only for themselves, but also for each other. In a way I think Bill's fulfillment is Tom's and because of Bill's driving force, he is not driving only himself, but distantly driving Tom too. I don't if that made any sense? It does not mean in any way that Tom is Bill's puppet, but it's natural to him to wish things that make Bill happy. What do you think?

I don't know what to say about the fame changing, because I think everything changes us in life and we can't seperate things that didn't and things that did changed us in the end, because all did, everything is a brush on a canvas. I think Bill is swimming deep. Bill is swimming very deep in his need for this. I think his admired passion and determination also drives him to "all or nothing"-mode. How much of his identity as Bill Kaulitz, the front man of Tokio Hotel, melted into him? What are the qualities and measurements that identify Bill when he identifies himself? What kind of role has thousands of screaming girls in his identity, what about the fact that people know your name before you introduce yourself? He says they don't define him, but don't they really? If that all would go away over night, how would it affect on his self image, his identity? Maybe nothing, but just maybe... And I think that all of this is only natural. Humanmind workd that way. Just questions...

Amdee

April 23rd, 2010, 03:49 PM

@Fairywings (I'm sorry, I'm always terrible with names)

You have a point and so it should be. We can't protect them, live their life or learn behalf of them. There's one thing I need to learn in life in general: I can't take hits and learn behalf of anyone else. Not this band, not even my friends or family. It sucks me dry of emotions to feel so strongly on everything I pick close to my heart. I fool myself to think that maybe, if I try hard enough, I can take a bunch or two behalf of them. Like I can take it, I can take it all, as long as other's don't need to hurt. And it doesn't work that way. I find something very motherly on my way to feel about them. Protectiveness, proud... Where are these twisted emotions coming from? Eventually I don't even know them and they have zero effect on me on normal life, only that emotional trap I'm in with Tokio Hotel? (I feel a bit uncomfortable and very self concious when saying that)

Okay, going back to the original question... I don't know if it's the power or destruction of this band that seems like so many fans are emotional "trapped" on them, with them? If I exaggerate; Breathing, weeping, cheering on a pace of Tokio Hotel; Bill, Tom, Georg, Gustav... Not everyone, of course, but what I've observed, for many fans they are more than a band, they have emotional connection to Tokio Hotel. I do, I admit it.

Seeing videos like that hit the button of my failure to protect them in me. Even if I didn't even know them when these wheels started to roll, I take it like own disability, own helplessness to take away bad things. To blow the pain away when you fall and hurt your knee, to wipe away to sand from your clothes, to close boogiemen into the closet so they can never get out. The same force drove me to study social work in a first place: if I try hard enough, I can take hits behalf of other people. I guess that's my burden in life to fight that mental image :)

I got so side tracked now... but maybe it's a good thing :grin:

Nats

April 23rd, 2010, 03:58 PM

I am glad you see what I meant about the Tom/Bill relationship! :grin: They both complement each other. Bill is a downright dreamer, and Tom is more grounded. Even in appearance, I always imagined Bill more lunar, cold (as in the general look, not character), ethereal, whereas Tom is more warm, earthen, rooted to the earth. Pale skin and tanned skin... it's like the sun and moon. I think Bill is the kinda guy who will drag someone by the arm and say "c'mon let's live our dream!" while Tom is more the realistic worker, so to speak. It seems to me like Bill provides that little pick-me-up and permission to dream, while Tom is always keeping Bill close enough to the ground. Not like a chain ball, but like his other half.

As for fame... it doesn't change everyone in the same way, but it does alter something... in them. One way or another. Bill is addicted to it, sadly to strip it from him, especially overnight, would ruin him. That's his Achilles heel, I think.

vatefairefoutre

April 23rd, 2010, 04:04 PM

LOL Nats. that whole analogy reminded me of this...

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww320/vatefairefoutreo/twitches2.jpg

:laugh:

cuz you know... one was 'the sun' witch and the other was 'the moon' witch or whatever LMAO.

I'll just go away now... carry on! :laugh:

ray_ray2384

April 23rd, 2010, 04:11 PM

Together, Bill and Tom make the perfect man. Separately, they each lack certain qualities.

Nats

April 23rd, 2010, 04:17 PM

I've never seen that, Char! :laugh: It looks interesting, in a cheesy way.. :laugh:

I think separately they can both hold their own as personalities, cause hey nobody's perfect, but they depend too much on each other so their characters are kinda dependant and chained to the other, imo.

musicinmysoul

April 23rd, 2010, 04:17 PM

I have to say TH is taking a big part of my life too. And this has happened many times befoe :) When I start o listen to a new band or get a new CD, I can listen to that CD and only (more or less) that CD for 6 months or more.
B ut somehow it`s different with TH. I have made friends at other forums for other artist, but still it´s kind of different with this forum. But I also think it´s different in a way, because I can relate to TH (well, Bill and Tom) in a way I haven´t been able to before. And I have to say, thanks to the forum I met Amdee, and thanks to that I went to a TH concert, and also made a friend :)
I finally decided to change my style when I started listening to TH, not only becuase of that, but I guess you can kind of say "they gave me a push". Sometimes I wish they could give me one more push or two... But they don´t know I exist so....

And with that rambling.... I agree with most of what you have said. I think Bill si the driving force, mostly him, but also Tom. G and G loves what they are doing, but they are satisified with playing music and being on stage, while I think both Bill and Tom needs and wants more.
When they started out I´m sure they wanted to they wanted to make it big. But I think that even if you deam big, want it all, think you are prepared for everything, you can never really understand how it will be if you really make it. They have said this is the life that they want, and that you have to sacrify things, and you do. But did they really realize how much they had to sacrify?
They have change, and they will change some more, that`s partof life and part of growing up. But they would probably nit have changed the same way if they were not living this life.

And Amdee, I think those questions about Bill and identity are good. I have thought about some of them myself.

And as always when I try to be serious and write somthing good, I feel like I´m rambling, not knowing what to write and to put everything into words, and I´m probably thinking too much...

vatefairefoutre

April 23rd, 2010, 04:23 PM

Together, Bill and Tom make the perfect man. Separately, they each lack certain qualities.

I so agree!

and you've never heard about the Twitches? hahaha! I remember reading the first book when I was like... in freaking 4th grade or something. it is kinda interesting/cool in a cheesy way! I believe they had like different powers too. and they were all powerful together... ? idk. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

and TH is a big part of my life too! I've totally made TONS AND TONS of internet friends AND real life friends as well <3

musicinmysoul

April 23rd, 2010, 04:26 PM

I so agree!

and you've never heard about the Twitches? hahaha! I remember reading the first book when I was like... in freaking 4th grade or something. it is kinda interesting/cool in a cheesy way! I believe they had like different powers too. and they were all powerful together... ? idk. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

and TH is a big part of my life too! I've totally made TONS AND TONS of internet friends AND real life friends as well <3

I`ve never read the books, only seen two Disney movies :)

Nats

April 23rd, 2010, 04:27 PM

No I haven't! Twitches just reminds me of spasms. :laugh: I'll need to research that one. :laugh:

I'd ramble myself silly but I can't right now. :laugh:

Amdee

April 23rd, 2010, 04:49 PM

vatefairefoutre

April 23rd, 2010, 05:00 PM

P.s. WTF are Twiches? Never heard of :laugh:

twins + witches = TWITCHES! it was a popular book/movie back in the day... :laugh:

Amdee

April 23rd, 2010, 05:03 PM

twins + witches = TWITCHES! it was a popular book/movie back in the day... :laugh:

Okay. I'm so out of these things. :laugh:

summer love

April 23rd, 2010, 06:23 PM

This band has a place in my heart and I think they'll always have. When I really appreciate a band and like their music, I remain a fan for life. I can see myself in... let's say 10 yrs, going to a TH concert with my children!

I've also met wonderful people in this fandom whom I really consider my friends! I've met Ray so far <3, and wish I could meet more of you guys!

I just wish we could have a different experience at M&Gs. Well, probably in the near future, things will change.

I also would like them to see that there are a lot of fans that really, really appreciate them for what they are and not because of their pretty faces. That there are fans that truly care about them.

Nats

April 23rd, 2010, 06:55 PM

Amdee

April 23rd, 2010, 07:05 PM

This is from the first Vanity Fair interview, I found it during my late browsings.

VF: Thanks to paparazzi and so-called reader reporter, you’re now on a watch 24/7. Is this impertinence or completion?
BK: When I was a little boy, I always imagined how everything I do is being recorded by cameras and how this is going out to the world. I wanted boundless attention. Now I achieved it. How can I be annoyed by this?

I think he's changed his tune now. How can he be annoyed by this? I think he doesn't even have to answer that...

I ythink the other example of how little he evenrtually knew about all the sideeffects when this all started and even before. I think he has changed his mind, too. But I also think that he is trapped in that "we chose this"-mantra. Sometimes they say that sometimes they regret or it's not nice, but I think they just canät say it loud that this really makes me think twice. maybe itr's some kind of invisible border he can't cross, admit that his childroom dream isn't perfect?

I'm stuck with certain images, I guess :grin:

Nats

April 23rd, 2010, 07:10 PM

Maybe that mantra is like him trying to assure himself. You know when you've made a choice, and at some point in future you doubt it and you keep saying "I chose this, I chose this" and it's like trying to convince yourself and not allow doubt and insecurity to kick in. You don't want to say "You know what, I regret it sometimes" but you just look ahead and keep repeating your mantra, like a brainwash.

I find it hard to believe that he hasn't at least once, regretted it a tiny bit. It's human.

dejavu711

April 23rd, 2010, 07:33 PM

ChikaXD

April 23rd, 2010, 07:47 PM

Yeah, just like PCD said "BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR CUZ YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT"

I love you Deja! :laugh:

dejavu711

April 23rd, 2010, 07:48 PM

I love you Deja! :laugh:

:laugh: I always have to use song lyrics to help get the point across.

FairyWings

April 23rd, 2010, 07:59 PM

@Fairywings (I'm sorry, I'm always terrible with names)

You have a point and so it should be. We can't protect them, live their life or learn behalf of them. There's one thing I need to learn in life in general: I can't take hits and learn behalf of anyone else. Not this band, not even my friends or family. It sucks me dry of emotions to feel so strongly on everything I pick close to my heart. I fool myself to think that maybe, if I try hard enough, I can take a bunch or two behalf of them. Like I can take it, I can take it all, as long as other's don't need to hurt. And it doesn't work that way. I find something very motherly on my way to feel about them. Protectiveness, proud... Where are these twisted emotions coming from? Eventually I don't even know them and they have zero effect on me on normal life, only that emotional trap I'm in with Tokio Hotel? (I feel a bit uncomfortable and very self concious when saying that)

lol my name is Lola :]

I understand you pretty well, I felt like that for a long time. It's nothing to be ashamed of really. We have a heart and feelings, it's only natural. Now I just don't think about it anymore, but it really is hard trying not to become attached to the boys, especially in the beginning. They're a big part of my life as well. And when I found out about this band the whole experience filled some empty spaces I didn't even know I had!

Don't feel self conscious. I'm sure many of us feel or have felt the same way. We all have our little secrets, whether we voice them or not. We are never the only ones to feel a certain way.

ray_ray2384

April 23rd, 2010, 11:33 PM

Rambling FTW! :laugh:

@Ray, true, very true. But then again I'm not sure if I wanted a man who is a combination of them. Itä's like their characters with needs, flaws and weaknesses are important to me as I always love people with flaws and weaknesses. I love them to be together and I wish they'd stay more or less the same forever, because it's touching, but at the same time I wonder how much their dependency affects on their personal growing up? How much yours and mine become ours and like Nats said, it gives them both a right/chance to keep on going their paths. Bill can dream, cause Tom keeps him grounded and vice versa. Good or bad? I don't know.

Tom/Bill are yin/yang and as they've said before they complete each other. they are one. I think it's very good that they have each other to depend on. they are each other's best friend.

I think the fact that they have grown up depending on each other so much may have affected their need to allow people into their inner circle. Do I see see it as a negative? Not really. It's very hard to find genuine friends. It takes time to find out if a person is worth trusting. Now....place that same concern in an environment where fakeness is common. makes the process much more difficult.

Bill/Tom can't help but depend heavily on each other. The have been together since the womb. I can't even relate to that sort of bond. As far as I can tell, the twins are growing up to be wonderful young guys who are determined to make their dreams come true.

about the vanity fair interview: I honestly believe that Bill craves attention. He's said it himself and it's very obvious when you see how he can dominate nearly any situation we see him in. He loves to talk and wants the spotlight to be on him. The way he chooses to express himself begs people to look at him. I think the kind of attention bill desires is when he's at special events and everyone wants to take pictures of him. Everyone is shouting his name wanting him to pose, interviewers are shoving microphones in his face asking him questions. Fans are screaming his name, wanting his attention, his autograph and etc..... but, what about when he's home, when he's off work running simple errands, driving around town. Does he like the constant attention he gets from fans/stalkers who follow him everywhere? I doubt it because I've heard him speak against people who won't leave him alone when he's at home. I think all of the constant attention feeds his ego and makes him feel important and worthy. But, I'm sure there comes a time for him when enough is enough.

====================================

I admit that TH has become an important part of my life. I've never been so involved with a band and its fandom before. Usually I'll listen to an artist's music and leave it at that. But, with TH, it's gone beyond just listening to the albums and enjoying the music. I actually care about the decisions they make with their career, how it affects me as a fan and how I can help when it all. I've met really cool people since I became a fan! In a way, TH has had a positive effect on my life! I wouldn't have been exposed to so many different ppl! On the downside, I have allowed TH to take up too much space in my life. But, that's changed. I'm pulling back and moderating how much attention I give to anything TH-related! :lol:

Lyz, so happy I met you too!!! and now...we're gonna see the Glambulge! :lol:

Nats

April 24th, 2010, 10:38 AM

ray_ray2384

April 24th, 2010, 12:11 PM

Bill/Tom are tied by blood and always will be. They can never change that. All I can tell by interviews I've read and seen is that the twins are very close. I can't tell if there is anything unhealthy about their bond. Nor, would I think there is unless you're thinking boundaries could be crossed.

goldriley

April 24th, 2010, 12:13 PM

I agree he craves the attention. Why, I don't know. Maybe he feels worthy enough through it, maybe he just likes it... it could be complex or even simple as pie.

I also agree that it's logical to set boundaries. In front of the public, in front of the camera, he can be showered with attention and he's happy with that. But in private, he draws a line and says that's enough. Thing is, that line is awfully blurred in that business environment.

Tom/Bill's relationship is extraordinary, and beautiful. Depending on one another through thick and thin. I just... think it can end up pretty unhealthy sometimes. It's like when you are kids and you have a best best friend and you decide to be blood brothers, or you swear that "nothing will keep you apart" and stuff, and years later yo see just how innocent that was. In those days you had no idea how the future would turn out, how it can flip over at any moment, how people change.

I think we all agree that Bill and Tom's relationship is extraordinary and beautiful. It doesn't come very day. I also agree how it can end up unhealthy. When I hear and read interviews where they say that they are going to die together breaks my heart because that was my plan with my friend, Joe, whose relationship with me was pretty darn close to what Tom and Bill have now. He died four years ago and even though I am improving myself, going through college, and trying to piece my life back together because I promised him I would after one of our friends died, I am doing it alone. Now I am opposite of what I used to be. I prefer to be alone than with people, I am actually really nervous around new people because he isn't around anymore for security. I am quieter. Some days it still takes everything to just get out of bed. However if people knew the whole situation they would think that I have really lost it. So you are right that we don't know, but what we don't know doesn't have to kill us.

Anyway, I think that they are so depent on each other because they can only trust the other completely in this business. They feel safe in each other's company because one would die for the other, especially Tom for Bill. The only thing I see wrong and worry about is what would happen to one if the other were suddenly not there, such as what would Tom have done if Bill hadn't walked away from that car accident. We can only imagine what would happen.

Amdee

April 24th, 2010, 02:10 PM

First about craving the attention...

I agree. It's the driving force for especially Bill. Maybe it fills some need in him, which I don't know what it is. Even if he wants it, constantly seaches for it and enjooys it, I can see that it can be devastating and destroying at the sam,e time, addicted. I think that even if he is addicted to it and loves it, it can be a burden for him as well. This is a very poor comparison, but in some way it can be seen like a drug addiction: you crave for it, you want it, it gives you the high you want, but at the same time it's slowly pulling you deeper and at some point, you want it and hate at the same time. Something like that?

But Bill is right, when he says that there is no turning back. They made their decisions when they were 15 - whether or not it was fair to expect them to do uit then - and they can't make it undone or change the deciosions they did. I'm sure they made a choise not to think too much of alternative solutions and after the last 5 years they've learn to live life like this, this is their normal. Just thsat... I hope the dive is not too deep for them, when/if it comes some day.

Second about the twins relationship...

I love to watch what they have. All those little gestures, looks, simple complete person they create together. It's very beautiful and gives threm enormous strengt. I wish they can always be like that... However, when I said that I'm not sure how good it is, I meant that IF some thing in life doesn't go like planned, it will be terrible situation. Since they are so dependent, I worry about their surviving without each other if they have to some day. That is what I mean by growing up separately. I don't know, what I want more: to secure their individual strenght by growing complete as separate people or see their enomous strenght what they get from each other and that unconditional love and trust they share. I'm first one to flag for their twin connection, but I would lie if I'd say that I never think of their individual growth too. Well, I guess I want to trust their cabability to find the balance. Or they HAVE a balance, but that they also can grow as separate persons.

I love it how you, goldriley, took Bill's car crash here... After that crash I thought about a lot of their cabability to survive without each other. I think it was definitely a hard lesson. From Bill's sayings can be made the comclusion that it was very tough thing for Tom. I'm sure it was. I can only imagine what they both went trough after that. Right now it's hard for me to see, how they could survive without each other. At least not in that industry.

goldriley

April 24th, 2010, 02:40 PM

I totally agree Amdee. I think that in this industry they need each other in more ways than one. The way I have seen it and it has been described here: Tom is what keeps Bill grounded and is also there for his own sense of security. For Tom, I think Bill is what keeps him going. He does everything to make sure his little brother is happy and safe. If Bill HAD died, then what would be the need to continue himself? I could see him either trying to make sense of it and move on for Bill to keep his memory alive like I am doing right now, or taking his own life, which is something don't even want to think about but we can't escape that possibility. I know firsthand what it is like to lose someone so close and precious to you so suddenly, years later it still ultimately sucks a$$ and as much as I want to have a relationship like that, I am scared to do so in fear of losing them. Some people tell me that they know how I feel, but really they don't.

dejavu711

April 24th, 2010, 03:44 PM

You guys feel too much :laugh: JK. Nothings wrong with being emotional and having alot of feelings about people you don't know :^D

dejavu711

April 24th, 2010, 03:45 PM

I should shut up *goes away*

musicinmysoul

April 24th, 2010, 04:34 PM

Like summer love said I would also want them to see all us "normal" fans, who cares for them, even though we don´t know them who appreciates them for who they are and not what they are or their pretty faces. They are so much more than just pretty faces and great musicians.
I think that is one little part of why I want to meet them, so they can see that there are very sane people who loves their music, without being crazy. And in a way that feels silly to say.

Amdee. I don´t think someone so young should make a decision like that either. I´m sure they have been surprised many times how it actually turned out. But, if they have felt like it was too much, or they don´t know if they want it, I don´t think they would admit it out loud, or maybe not even really to themself, cause they made it, and they are living their dream.

I can iimagine, with things that have happened, that they have thought about it some time, it it is worth it, but like I said, I´m not sure they would actually admit it. I can imagine Bill not wanting to admit it, cause he and Tom always say this always wanted this, that they can´t imagine doing anything else. And I´m not sure I can either to be honest. Cause when you see them on stage, they just belong there. But I also think everyone sometimes feel that they are not sure if they want it all. Th started when they were so young, I think some people would really wish they had their childhood, miss not being able to be a normal teenager.

And what Ray said about attention. We all know Bill wants and needs attention. He always wanted some kind of attention, right? They have made it big, they are famous all over the world, alot of girls want them for different reasons. If someone doubted them, they proved them wrong, if someone would have said they would never be something, they proved them wrong.
I´m not saying Bill plays a character. But as "bill Kaulits from Tokio Hotel" he gets attention, he wants and needs the attention, he talks a lot, he knows how to pose and doesn´t mind people taking his picture. People want him. But, as private Bill I think (and I would guess the same goes for Tom) he just wants to be a normal guy sometimes, he doesn´t want people to follow him everywhere, he wants a private life where he can do want he wants. And maybe, since he says it´s so hard to find a girl and he doesn´t know what girls wants from him, he is insecure about what girls (or people in general) really want from him. Would they like him for him, and not what he is, why would they want him? In a way I think "Bill Kaulitz from Tokio Hotel" and Bill Kaulitz are sometimes two quite different people.

Did that make any sense?

Nats

April 24th, 2010, 04:51 PM

Ah the real Bill/TH Bill talk. :grin:

I can understand the two personas; TH Bill who is glamorous, wonderful performer, loves the spotlight, knows how to put on a show. Bill is just a regular guy with a little OCD behaviour, that has an edgy style, a sensitive soul and a kind heart.

I think though, he doesn't know how to let Bill shine through. If he meets a girl, he's still gonna project TH Bill because... he's used to it? His professional front is like an armor from the outside world? He's scared? I dunno. I just imagine that a girl who will be truly interested, or should I say intrigued, by who he is, will be confused because its like... part of him shows interest towards her, but the other part is scared to let the wall down.

How do I explain. It's like when you are at work. You must be polite, obedient, fair, friendly, etc. Sometimes you may feel like punching your co-worker, but you can't. Or you can't appear to work in doc martens and black. Soon you develop a personality from work. Not to say it's "fake", but it's the face you need to get forward in your carreer. You live by it. Diplomacy, cunning. You can't let your own self show, because it's irrelevant to your job.

Okay I'm messing this up. :laugh: In a nutshell, I think Bill is using TH Bill to smile-and-wave, boys-smile-and-wave with everyone he comes into contact with, because he doesn't want to show regular guy Bill.

musicinmysoul

April 24th, 2010, 04:58 PM

The regual Bill, that you do see a little of sometimes, I`m sure I would love that person. If he is anything like I imagine him, I would really like him.

Nats

April 24th, 2010, 05:00 PM

I think we all would. =) I'm pretty sure beneath the glamness and glitter that surrounds him, and the looks, he is just a cool guy. I think though we don't see him that much, even his jokes or funny things he says sometimes just seem so... programmed. Not all the time though.

musicinmysoul

April 24th, 2010, 05:04 PM

I´m sure pretty much all of us here would, but I´m also sure there would be a lot of people who would be disapointed of the regular Bill. And maybe that´s why he is careful about new people.

Nats

April 24th, 2010, 05:08 PM

Yeah I'm sure he's scared to disappoint others. I must say the image of the Bill we're used to has probably fooled many people. Romantic, sincere, amazing style, great performer... I'm not implying for a minute that he doesnt really love anyone or is really a horrible person IRL, but... he's got his downsides too. People view him as "perfecttt <333". I was browsing through old interviews the other day, and it was the days of girls declaring they are exactly like what Bill talked about. You could tell they thought he was mr Perfect and that he has no flaw under the sun.

If they met a guy with Bill's character, the good the bad and the ugly of it, they couldn't care less.

Amdee

April 24th, 2010, 05:14 PM

Interesting...

I truly love Bill. He seems to be very cool guy with all his little "flaws", but still a good guy. I used the word love here in lack of better word, but I know you understand what I mean.

I wish we could see his true self a bit more. I think Bill's "problem" is that his armor is already so thick that it is starting sometimes to ruin the smoothness. He is too smooth, too nice, too smiley, too...almost hard to approach, because there is sometimes lacking that certain humanity in him. "Press this button and Bill smiles, press 1 for this answer, press 2 for that answer...". I think it's his possible armor that makes me feel like I couldn't ever approach him, because there wouldn't be any contact surface with him. It's nice, clean, polishes, friendly, but I couldn't tell where ends the real BIll and where starts his programmed, trained "Bill Kaulitz from Tokio Hotel". LIke Nats said, it's not fake, but it's like an armor to wear so you can work. I wish he wouldn't be so afraid to show his weaknesses to us, but I understand his decision not to. He has d*mn good reasons to wear that armor.

Just hoping that it's not blocking out all the good new people from his life.

Btw, do you ever feel yourself disgustingly selfish when you think that you would want to know the real selves of these 4 guys? Like you don't really have a right to want that, because it would be just another thing you want from them and you can't really give anything back? Isn't the wanting actually quite selfish? I want and sometimes I feel quite uncomfortable with it. Who am I to want to know/see something so personal? Just a thought.

goldriley

April 24th, 2010, 05:22 PM

Oh, I think that all of the time. A lot of the questions I would have for them would really require them to think because I have a small pleasure in watching people sit back and actually think about what they are going to say and who they are and what they would do in certain situations, in a way it forces them to find their true selves in the process.

Nats

April 24th, 2010, 05:30 PM

I'm glad you see what I mean, Amdee. :grin: (For some reason I still call you Amdee instead of your real name :laugh: ) Bill from TH is like a very shiny steel object, like the kind you have in the kitchen: You can touch it and breathe on it, and the mark will only be there, faintly, for a while before it vanishes and is restored to its shiny self. If you get what I mean. :laugh: Like when you steam up a spoon. We, as fans, or even other people, may leave a tiny imprint on him, like maybe get a second glance from him at a concert or m&g, but in the end that mark will fade and he'll be back to his former status.

I think he needs someone who will scratch that surface and leave a mark on it. Like those little scratch marks on your own spoons. But not in a bad way. He needs someone who will peer at him beady eyed, give a shifty glance in a "don't give me that crap" look, and see the insecure Bill somewhere underneath that makeup. Cause I honestly think he's like those little kids that have done something bad or have been crying, and you look at them and they want to reach out to you, but are scared to do it, in case you scold them or leave them.

As for the selfishness. I don't know what I could ever give Bill (since I'm mostly talking about him) in return, but I guess what I did give would come from me, without the pretence or golddigger sparkle in the eye. I think he might appreciate that. But... I really don't know.
I admit I want to know more. They aren't sociological guinea pigs for me, I really am interested to see how they truly are, what they think, why they think. As you've said, to sit down with a pack of cigarettes and a coffee, and just talk. Is it selfish? I don't think so, I think I'm just genuinely intrigued by these four boys. And since my intentions would be good, I can only say it's like wanting to meet an interesting person. I'm babbling. :laugh:

musicinmysoul

April 25th, 2010, 06:44 AM

I have to say I agree with you Nats. If someone asked me what my dream date with Th would be like, to be completely honest, it would be just a normal conversation and be able to get to know them, just a little bit. Cause I really am interested in them as persons, I do want to know things about them.
I don´t think ít´s selfish to want to meet them and to get to know them. I´m seeing it the same way as Nats, wanting to know someone you find interesting.
What I could give them...? I don´t want to meet them and get to know them so I can brag about knowing them. And I´m sure a lot of people (fans or other people) would do that (brag about knowing them). I think I would give them as much of me as I would be able to give, "expecting" friendship in return, cause I am interested in them as persons, what they feel, what they think about things. And they woulod never have to be afraid that what they tell me would end up in the media or something. Cause if it was me, I wouldn´t want that. (You know that "treat óthers liek you want to be treated") And I think that me and Bill are the same way in some ways.

And sometimes I wanna be that person you are talking about Nats. The one who can show him he can trust someone, see his insecurity and love him for it. (And I almost don´t want to say it, cause it feels like... a secret, and like it´s ridiculous to actually say it "out loud".)

I agree with you. Underneath that makeup and the clothes, I am sure there is insecurity, but he uses the makeup, the clothes, the hair, as a shield. "say what you want, I don´t care". But, like I have said sometime before, I believe he does eventually. No one can let everything you hear run off you. I don´t believe that.

And I feel like I´m mostly babbling too...

Amdee

April 25th, 2010, 06:56 AM

I love how you answer, Nats! I understand completely what do you mean anmd feel more or less the same! That's what I hope: Don't be afraid to be scarred! Because those scars are kind of your most valuable thing when you look back at your life. Not all scars are bad.

And you are right, maybe we can give? It's just hard for me to find out, what is it that I could give and not all these thousdands and thousands of other fans can't. Why give up your cover and expose to be bunched for us? I don't know...

EDIT. You answered while I was writing mine,Musicinmysoul (I don't know if you don't want yoir real name mentioned here, so I just use your nickname). I hope it would be obvious that it's not about bragging. But yeahg, probably not. How many people are there to phtoshop pics with them and the boys claiming that they know them? No wondser it's hard to break that cover. For me it sometimes feels embarrassing to even say that I genuily just want to understand, to hear what they have to say outside cameras and professional roles, how they see this world. Sometimes it feels embarrassing and I don't know why. Maybe because I feel like being somehow naive to hoping that? I don't know. But I still do and I'm so happy to see how others hope for it too :).

********

Ray posted this on Tom-spam. Thank you :)
I wanted to share it here too since I'm sure not all of you read Tom-spam, but I'd still like to hear what do you think... I just found out that it's from Zurich (if it matters).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBrZ5CTJotI

Before I saw this, I was "No, not again these, blah!", but it really looks like his eyes are wet. Not like normally, but maybe...in tears?

I don't know... I can't really get in touch with my emotions right now. What about you?

musicinmysoul

April 25th, 2010, 07:04 AM

He does look very emotional, and close to tears. I don´t know what song they were playing there, but I´m guessing it means a lot ot him,and that is why he has teary eyes. And it just makes me "awww".

Nats

April 25th, 2010, 11:50 AM

I think he was sitting there, so maybe it was a ballad? Like In Your Shadow? I know Bill wrote that song for the two of them, so maybe he got kinda teary.

Although to me, his gaze was completely elsewhere. Wherever he was in his mind, it certainly wasn't the concert. :laugh: I mean he's played each song so many times, he could play blindfolded, so to speak. He was misty eyed there, in a separate time and space from his body. :laugh:

I think, musicinmysoul, I understand what you felt embarrassed of saying. I feel it too, sometimes. Like when you sometimes miss a person you've never met. I get that often. I just feel this... longing, to reach out to someone. I am crushing on two guys, yet I don't long for them. I can't put a face to the person I'm missing, it's like putting your hand out in a dark room trying to grab something.
Concerning the boys, I really do want to know them. Maybe because I'm so accustomed to them from interviews and THTV, but they feel like long lost buddies. :laugh: I'm not one of those fangirls that would jump on them within two minutes (I have my own issues and it's just not me) and I think it's pretty dumb to do a photo manip, when it's not within silly or fun context. It's wishful thinking.

And we all know how bad wishful thinking can be. :geek1:

Amdee

April 25th, 2010, 12:34 PM

It was during Geisterfahrer in Zurich...

But I'll get back to that later, when I come back. I have to run--literally :laugh:

ray_ray2384

April 25th, 2010, 12:40 PM

I've learned that if something is too good to be true. It usually is.

dejavu711

April 25th, 2010, 12:41 PM

I've learned that if something is too good to be true. It usually is.

That was deep.

You guys are so good with writing all this in depth stuff and I can't do that lol

Nats

April 25th, 2010, 12:52 PM

Deja you're good at being awesome. :laugh: Seriously, your choice of words and pictures when you post always have me cracking up bad. :laugh: Good humor comes naturally, it can't be taught. :cool:

As for the good thing part, part of me wants to agree, and part wants to disagree. The part that agrees says that yep, nothing is ever that good, and nothing ever will be. It's just naive thinking. And there is always something behind a good thing.
The part that disagrees says that there is such a thing as near-perfect, but it's flawed, like we are. That hoping and waiting for it isn't really that bad.

I guess it depends on when you talk to me, I'll vary between the two.

dejavu711

April 25th, 2010, 12:58 PM

Nats

April 25th, 2010, 01:00 PM

Why ruin it with Hanna Montana? :laugh:

dejavu711

April 25th, 2010, 01:02 PM

Why ruin it with Hanna Montana? :laugh:

Hannah Montana is deep. You just don't even know. :laugh: Just kidding.

Nats

April 25th, 2010, 01:09 PM

I had a marvellous comment to make here, but I forgot what it was. :laugh:

[insert awesome comment here] :cool:

musicinmysoul

April 25th, 2010, 02:12 PM

As for the good thing part, part of me wants to agree, and part wants to disagree. The part that agrees says that yep, nothing is ever that good, and nothing ever will be. It's just naive thinking. And there is always something behind a good thing.
The part that disagrees says that there is such a thing as near-perfect, but it's flawed, like we are. That hoping and waiting for it isn't really that bad.

I like that part (the bold)
And I think I both agree and disagree about what ray said too.

ItaughtGustavDrums

April 25th, 2010, 03:36 PM

Regarding this "dream" they had since little as well as fame is a very complex subject as seen by all the posts, my view on it is this:

(Sorry if the below is mainly Bill/Tom orientated but as people have said they were the driving force of the TH "monster" and the two Gs are the talented musicians along for the ride)

When they were that young (Bill/Tom) they could have never imagined how big TH would get and the price that comes with it but even then it feels like they knew it with their whole being deep inside that a normal life wasn't for them. Bill often mentions how impatient he is (daily pointless tasks would drive him mad I think), they were already quite different from the norm at age 11 (an age when most kids are just trying to fit in and do what everyone else is doing), I just can't imagine a normal life for them. I think they would find normality extremely boring, monotonous and would always feel unfulfilled and empty inside, like they should be doing something more with their lives. There is no denying there is something special about them ( evident from their personalities at such young ages) and people like that ( at least in my opinion ) would not get fulfillment/satisfaction from living "normal" lives.

Nothing in this life is perfect, it's flawed by design just like their dream, but knowing a few bands of friends desperately trying to make it, really makes me appreciate what TH have. These days with the number of bands and musicians and people, making such a huge success is a true gift not to be taken lightly ( I mean think of the odds).

Sure what they have has it's negative side and price to pay (just like everything in this life), there is no sense of normality EVER, they are way overworked, they can never let their guard down being under constant watch and scrutiny etc ... I am sure they (Bill mostly) love the attention, performing and how everyone is always listening to what he has to say but I know he would love to turn it off at times, like when you are so tired and just don’t feel like singing or performing or giving your best. Unfortunately he can not afford that luxury and always has to maintain that image which is why it has become so automatic and synthetic as you guys have said.
Having to be like that since a young age I don’t think he has had time to develop "non TH Bill Kaulitz" really, he's hardly had the time off to do so. At least in my opinion what you see is who he is even when at home (just without the excessive diplomacy, politeness and proper behavior required from a public image) He seems like a very sincere and real person which lead me to believe he's not faking it/wearing a mask or created a persona for the media, it's just an exaggerated form of his personality conforming to the required rules, at the core it is still Bill Kaulits.

With the negative side mentioned above I still truly believe for them having this fame is the lesser evil to the other option (being nobody important struggling to make it), there are a LOT of positives too which I won't mention as this is getting way too long but look at just one sphere of it (the fans) and how positively most of us have been affected due to band reaching their dream and not regretting it (hope the above doesn't come off as overlooking the bands needs and selfishly focusing on fan needs but it's just a small percent and example of the positives associated with them achieving their dream)
The only problem I see is with them being overworked but if that gets addressed I see them in the best possible position for them in the way our flawed earth currently is. We can't change the rules of the media and fame for them, it comes with the territory they always wanted and still want, that's life.

So as a whole I don't feel bad or sad for them, I am extremely happy and amazed at what they have achieved/continue to achieve and simply can not think of a better situation/lifestyle for them (as long as they take it a bit slower from now on). And don't worry Amdee, from what I have seen the boys are loud and opinionated enough to say "STOP" if they feel they've had enough and probably get away from it all for a while. The main point being if they do stop for a while they still continue to have these numerous amazing things they have achieved and there is no doubt in my mind they will end up wanting to come back, maybe having more say and control in their lives this time round. They are in a better position to handle the negative because they have each other, an amazing bond 90% of us can not even begin to understand.

..... **** it I always have waayy too much too say, sorry for the wall of text guys :eyeroll:

musicinmysoul

April 25th, 2010, 03:57 PM

Even if it was long, you had good things to say :)
And I can´t think of them doing anything else. This is what they should do, and they do it so well.
When I was at the concert, I got this wow-feeling when Tom started playing. To actually see how great he is, and how much he loves it. Sure you see how much they love it when you look at videos, but too actually see it. I guess you can say this is what they were born to do.. They are so very talented.
Sometimes I wish I could be more like them, cause I want so much, and I think I could be someone else, but still me, more me, if that even makes sense. But I never take that step, cause I need someone to give me that push, cause obviously I can´t give myself that push.

Amdee

April 25th, 2010, 04:05 PM

I won't quote you, ItaughtGustavdrums, because it would be too long quote, but I think you wrote very interesting respond. It's always interesting to notice, how differently we see the same things. Just like this. It's basically just two sides, two different angles to watch the same thing and I understand your point too.

It's very true that esp. twins seemed to have already very strong, individual road ahead of them at very early age. If TH had never break through, I'm sure they (esp. Bill) would have some not so concervative career or direction in life.

I do admit, I worry. It's in my nature. I wonder how much the other side of the coin of fame is eating them. It's about balance. I hope they keep their balance and have courage and wisdom to say stop if the ride gets too bumby. It's just that like in many other things I don't think this industry hits you quickly,but more like gnaws you slowly until the limit of good and bad is blurred to unrecognizible. I hope they keep that vision clear. And yes, I worry about the clear addiction, because I see it there.

I don't mean to underestimate their success or attemps to make it or say that their success itself sucks. They've done amazing job through these years and kept their head surprisingly cool. I'm happy for them and withpout that success I wouldn't be here, so I can't complain. But I still wonder, how much to pay is fair. Is there even any fair existing?

Anyways, I'm sorry. I'm really this complicated and pathetic person by nature. I wish I could find the way to see things like that in general. I worry too much :)

***

Okay, I want to say something about that Tom-video I posted. Or... I don't know... I feel embarrassed to say anything about it. It has been haunting me all day and it bothers me that I will never know why. It made me feel utterly, completely, unbearably helpless and I hate that feeling. I don't believe in theories of emotional song. He had played it million times before, so why now? I personally think that he was sad, but we will never know why.

Anyways, it hits me bad to see vulnerability in him, because I don't need to see things like that knowing how much they affect me anyway. I don't know... It's hard for me to deal with. It's a numb ache in me and I can't pinpoint it to anywhere or to any reason particulary. I even feel like did this fandom "deserve" that to be filmed. I don't know. Just thoughts I can't grab on...

Emina

April 25th, 2010, 04:22 PM

musicinmysoul

April 25th, 2010, 04:35 PM

Okay, I want to say something about that Tom-video I posted. Or... I don't know... I feel embarrassed to say anything about it. It has been haunting me all day and it bothers me that I will never know why. It made me feel utterly, completely, unbearably helpless and I hate that feeling. I don't believe in theories of emotional song. He had played it million times before, so why now? I personally think that he was sad, but we will never know why.

Anyways, it hits me bad to see vulnerability in him, because I don't need to see things like that knowing how much they affect me anyway. I don't know... It's hard for me to deal with. It's a numb ache in me and I can't pinpoint it to anywhere or to any reason particulary. I even feel like did this fandom "deserve" that to be filmed. I don't know. Just thoughts I can't grab on...

I don´t think you have to feel embarrassed about it.
Maybe he thought of something sad, or something made him sad and it happened to happen during that song. Or something, I don´t know and if I write anything more I´m just going to ramble and not knowing myself what I´m saying...
But there is a song or two, that everytime I listen to them, they are so special to me that I´m almost a little teary eyed.
Now, maybe that song isn´t that special to him (that it would make him teary eyes) but maybe he thought of something that made him sad. Maybe it was something about the atmosphere, the audience? You know when you are so happy you almost want to cry?
And there I stop, before I start rambling to much and don´t know what I´m saying anymore.

Amdee

April 25th, 2010, 05:03 PM

This thread is amazing , Hannele, and Imma make a statement here .. xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlFX6tVyn-Y&playnext_from=TL&videos=YrcrUTPjxGg

This video is amazing for me . This song really complements Bill in many ways . We are not celebrities and we can't be in his position, we are just fans that can imagine what would be like to be him, but no, we could never understand how it is to be the bad man.

We don't know what's it like to be as hated as he is, and to be forced to tell lies, like it doesn't bother you at all . Deep inside, it does bother him, to have so many haters and I think the only thing that soothens him is the fact he has even more fans.

And behind all that, he is just a man. Just another person in this big black world of ours looking for love. A vengeance that's never free...

Thank you... Although people discussing here are making this nice, not me :).

I watched the video. I've never actually listened that song in that sense, but now that I did. Yes, it is so. I also believe that he's not that immune to hatred as he claims to be, but part of him needs it, because I think it defines him, his identity as much as people loving him. Maybe haters remind him of some side of him, give him justice to he asw challenging, as groundbreaking as he wants to be. As much as I think that with enourmous amouth of love people can make miracles, he might need those haters too. I hope it wouldn't be that way.

I don´t think you have to feel embarrassed about it.
Maybe he thought of something sad, or something made him sad and it happened to happen during that song. Or something, I don´t know and if I write anything more I´m just going to ramble and not knowing myself what I´m saying...
But there is a song or two, that everytime I listen to them, they are so special to me that I´m almost a little teary eyed.
Now, maybe that song isn´t that special to him (that it would make him teary eyes) but maybe he thought of something that made him sad. Maybe it was something about the atmosphere, the audience? You know when you are so happy you almost want to cry?
And there I stop, before I start rambling to much and don´t know what I´m saying anymore.

Yep. We will never know. I hope he's okay though. After all, I think he has maybe the most beautiful smile in this world and he should never stop smiling :). OH, keep rambling! We need rambling here!

musicinmysoul

April 25th, 2010, 05:06 PM

Amdee

April 25th, 2010, 05:19 PM

I feel sometimes when I am writing something serious, like in this thread, that I do nothing but ramble. But I´m not as good with words as you Hannele :) But I´m getting better :)

And he does have a beautiful smile :)

I'm not. You're silly, girl <3

Let's all watch this to feel better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrlIfyvmzWA

dejavu711

April 25th, 2010, 05:42 PM

Let's look at this pic to feel better.
http://s4.faceinhole.com/10/4/25/c0b807da419a3a1381.jpg
It's Lady TaTa. Or Gentlemen TaTa :laugh:

ray_ray2384

April 26th, 2010, 05:03 AM

Amdee, here's the video where you can see Tom was probably on the verge of tears!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aYWoT6NnKI

Amdee

April 26th, 2010, 06:10 AM

Amdee, here's the video where you can see Tom was probably on the verge of tears!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aYWoT6NnKI

Thanks, Ray! I heard that this was the original video, but I haven't seen it before. Poor baby.... Makes me sad to see this. Did you notice how Bill looked at him several times? He always does, but the change in Bill's expression when he first gives a quick glance to Tom?

Actually... this fandom doesn't deserve this, you know? I along the rest of the fandom are doing exactly what we don't deserve: are like hyenas attacking after prey, feast with it while there is something to feast, brutally tear apart something personal which doesn't belong to us. In a way I feel like I'm doing wrong when I watch that. Of course that is a stupid conclusion, but part of me feels that way.

Now I stop being drama queen and act like normal people :laugh:

ray_ray2384

April 26th, 2010, 06:53 AM

now that i've seen the whole video. i really think Tom was in pain.

musicinmysoul

April 26th, 2010, 07:31 AM

I only watched a little of the other video, and now that I have seen the video ray posted, I take back what I said and agree with ray. He is probably in pain. The way Bill looks at him and that little smile towards the end of the song, I think he looks like he feels sorry for him.

ray_ray2384

April 26th, 2010, 07:45 AM

and that infamous orgasm vid that fans were fangirling over? i also think tom was in pain at that time and that is why he made such faces.

Nats

April 26th, 2010, 09:45 AM

Yeah he has tendonitis doesn't he? If I were playing guitar every night with that, I'd cry too. :laugh:

Oh god, Behind Blue Eyes.... I haven't heard that song since I was 16. It reminds me of something personal, a phase of my life which was the darkest, most painful, desparing till now. It was an unrequited love, but it was more complicated than that. Anyway, digressing.

What were we talking about? :laugh: I had something I wanted to reply to. *goes off to find it*

ItaughtGustavDrums

April 27th, 2010, 02:27 PM

Sometimes I wish I could be more like them, cause I want so much, and I think I could be someone else, but still me, more me, if that even makes sense. But I never take that step,

To me that makes perfect sense, I pretty much feel the same way. I find myself constantly daydreaming of having the lifestyle, talent etc that they have I know it's sad and envious but I see nothing wrong in at least fantascising you are great, wanting to achieve/have achieved more ;)
Then again I would probably feel different if I had to do it each and every day ... personally I would need a very strong support base to deal with the constant pressure and I still don't know if I would be able to keep my sanity.
AAAAaAAAAAhhhh too many factors and variables to consider and weigh up.... head about to .... EXPLODE

Nats

April 27th, 2010, 02:31 PM

I know as well what musicinmysoul means. I see art or photography galleries and wish that someday that could be me. I used to dream of bands and fame and music, but that was years ago and it was with my friend, a bit of harmless daydreaming. I have neither the skills for music nor the voice for singing. :laugh: But I guess I can draw OK. So I think that's where my "calling" is. Dreaming of greatness and aspiring to be great like someone isn't bad. It may just be a dream, but it may also be a driving force.

My driving force is when I imagine what my online gallery of art and photography will look like. I've got mental images of it in my mind. <3

ray_ray2384

April 27th, 2010, 02:39 PM

To me that makes perfect sense, I pretty much feel the same way. I find myself constantly daydreaming of having the lifestyle, talent etc that they have I know it's sad and envious but I see nothing wrong in at least fantascising you are great, wanting to achieve/have achieved more ;)
Then again I would probably feel different if I had to do it each and every day ... personally I would need a very strong support base to deal with the constant pressure and I still don't know if I would be able to keep my sanity.
AAAAaAAAAAhhhh too many factors and variables to consider and weigh up.... head about to .... EXPLODE

I believe one of the main reasons why TH has been pursuing their dreams since they were very is because the guys have a strong support system.

Bill/Tom were encouraged by their mom and stepfather.
Gustav dreamed of becoming the best drummer he could be. and I believe his family supported him every step of the way.
Georg's story is a bit different. From what I learned, his dad didn't support his desires. In fact, Georg wanted to be a dentist..but that didn't happen; obviously.

The boys have each other, they have their team of producers, their managers, other staff members, their family and friends to give them guidance, advice, support every day. When you have so many people helping you achieve your dreams. I think it makes things a little bit easier.

I wish I had that sort of support growing up.

ItaughtGustavDrums

April 27th, 2010, 03:12 PM

I do admit, I worry. It's in my nature. I wonder how much the other side of the coin of fame is eating them. It's about balance. I hope they keep their balance and have courage and wisdom to say stop if the ride gets too bumby. It's just that like in many other things I don't think this industry hits you quickly,but more like gnaws you slowly until the limit of good and bad is blurred to unrecognizible. I hope they keep that vision clear. And yes, I worry about the clear addiction, because I see it there.

Very nicely put, It reminds me of the boiled frog analogy: "The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually."
That is a good point and definitely something to be concerned about.

It's funny thou because I have always labeled my father and his boring inglorious everyday job with that analogy "If it’s too hectic when you first get at your job, you would just quit and get another job, but if they slowly up the workload, increase the hours, lower the pay, you more likely to sit there and just boil.” .... sorry to derail off topic but it just occurred to me how the frog analogy pertains to both sides of the coin (the lifestyle TH experiences vs. the "normal" lifestyle").

I truly hope that won't happen to them but your worry is definitely justified. Sorry to repeat myself but I still think it's awesome they found their purpose at such a young age and that their job is something they actually love doing and getting a lot of approval and appreciation for doing it.... the money isn't bad either ;p. Maybe my opinion is currently slanted because I'm having such a hard time finding a meaning and purpose in the workplace( even life ) for myself and are always wishing I had some talent or something I was good at to define me, to guide my lost
self....a lifestyle to distract me from the heaviness and suffocating constriction of normality and routine.... wow that got emo...anyways this is about TH not me :P

I do definitely see the numerous points you have brought up, fame and living under constant watch can be extremely unhealthy and damaging if you don't have the mindset to deal with it, I think around 90% of actors, musicians etc are on some kind of drug ( prescription or not) to help them deal with it and I believe a lot of these recent celebrity deaths are suicide, I just think TH are better than and above that.

But I still wonder, how much to pay is fair. Is there even any fair existing?

It is usually said there is no fair in this world( life's not fair etc...), I think things are simply as fair as me, you and the rest of the people make it, unfortunately fame has been made into a chaotic circus (by the mass) and is currently not fair to the performers, the price to pay is always changing but as said lets both hope the guys have the courage and foresight to put their foot down when it gets too much. For your well-being I hope you don't worry and stress about it too much, only time will tell and until then there's not much we can do about it anyways, rather have faith and instead use that energy on making yourself happy or the people you care for ;-)

The one thing you mentioned was the "clear addiction", I usually end up watching videos of the music and hardly watch interviews on the guys could you elaborate/fill me in on what you mean by that ( I have a faint idea but feel I'm missing something).

Anyways, I'm sorry. I'm really this complicated and pathetic person by nature. I wish I could find the way to see things like that in general. I worry too much :)

You should absolutely NOT be apologizing for being yourself and staying true to/following your nature, you seem like a really sincere, deep, emotional, thoughtful, caring person ( just like the almighty and amazing Bill) and this is a perfect platform to vent out/release such concerns you might be struggling with :)

...... great I just wrote another thesis ... *petitions moderators to limit my posts to small amount of letters to force me from blabbing on so much*

Amdee

April 27th, 2010, 04:27 PM

The one thing you mentioned was the "clear addiction", I usually end up watching videos of the music and hardly watch interviews on the guys could you elaborate/fill me in on what you mean by that ( I have a faint idea but feel I'm missing something).

Hmm... It's nothing important, really. Bill has said himself several times that fame is addictive and you never get enough of it. I'm a bit "slow" today, so I have hard time to explain, what I mean, but I see them (esp. Bill) needing his attention he gets by this life he is leading. I personally see him being needing attention from the early age before TH already. This is filling his inner need and I think inner needs tend to search to be filled. And as those needs get filled, they seek it even harder and soon you might have some sort of addictive behaving model. I can't really explain it (right now at least), but that's how I see it and I guess it's kind of natural too; he has grown up in the middle of that, so it's natural part for him.

Also thank you for your very kind and wise words. They msade me feel better. I'm not having the best possible day, so they helped me to feel definitely better and I appriciate them a lot. However I try to tune down as much as I can from now on. It's eventually for the best for everyone... Less decoding and questioning, it makes things easier and annoys people less. After all it's all about getting along with people :smile:

musicinmysoul

April 28th, 2010, 11:50 AM

I´m glad I´m not the only one. (ItaughtGustavDrums, Nats).
Sometimes I feel like all I do is daydreaming. I think that`s what I do best actually....
And I don´t want only one thing. I want to sing, I want to act, I want to write books, I want to write movies.... And the only thing that might actually happen sometime along the road, is to have books published, if I´m lucky. And that´s not bad. But that`s not all I want.
I love my family and I think that if I really did take a chance, they would support me. But at the same time I think both my mom and my dad (especially mom) think it´s just dreams and that it won´t happen. And if I want it os much, they why don´t I really give it a try? To me it´s not that easy. Even if it should be. Cause I really want it. But, one of the problems, is I´m not in the USA. And it`s so much easier to dream than actually do. It feels like there is so much stopping me, when in reality, it´s only me..
But I´m not getting any younger, and hopfully I will learn to go for my dreams, before I´m way too old.
I need someone to give me that push. ANd I need someone to see what I believe I have in me. And that is not going to be easy, and probably will never happen.

me0w

April 28th, 2010, 02:00 PM

Exactly, I have big dreams too, but I don't have any chances to show what I've got.

Nats

April 28th, 2010, 02:46 PM

Yes, musicinmysoul. I dream of doing books too. My first book ever was when I was nine. :grin: It was two A4 pages stapled together. :laugh: But I need to be realistic, apparently. Need to get my feet on the ground.

Amdee

April 28th, 2010, 02:59 PM

Never give up your dreams for the sake of reality!

Even if they are impossible and you know it, day dreaming is enourmous force and power. It saves lives, it really does. Don't ever loose your cabability to let your mind drift away and create worlds impossible, but oh, so enpowering. There you can be ANYTHING and I truly can say that that possibility to dream has saved my life over and over again. Some other people have other coping methods, but my ultimate method is to dream and create worlds. When nothing else eases my pain, I close my eyes and change the world for a while and for that time it helps all my pains. I guess it's better way to survive than drink or do drugs or snap a handful of meds *shrug*

Dream, people, dream! No matter if they can never can true :)

Nats

April 28th, 2010, 03:23 PM

Yah but sometimes dreaming is just... wishful thinking. :/

I've dreamed of many things, things I'm ashamed of, things that can be achieved, things that may never happen. But I have to realise that no, no amount of dreaming will make them come true. Some things just aren't supposed to happen. And when you dream, it's like you live it and you're happy, but then again you know it's just a dream and that hurts. It's like when you're upset and you just want to sleep to avoid the reality of the world. Sleep all the time, escape it. And even in your dreams it still haunts you.

Sorry, I'm just not in my usual bubbly mood... :/

Amdee

April 28th, 2010, 03:43 PM

I understand your opinion too and I partly agree. Dreaming is not making it true. Sometimes it sucks to know that those dreams will never be true. But I think that I refuse to slaughter my dreams and instead I even take the pain of not knowing that I will never be what I might be in my dreams than live my life strickly stuck in reality with all it's limitations and cruelness. I am escapist, I admit it. It can be very bad thing, but I think it could be a good thing too as long as you can make difference of reality and dreams. I see dreaming as enpowering force to have a break to breathe so we can take all the hits the reality gives us.

I think we both have a point here, but I personally hope that we never loose that possibility to dream.

Nats

April 28th, 2010, 04:42 PM

Oh I know all about escapism. It's what I do best. When I have a problem, I may talk about it, think about it, dwell on it, but I always run away from the solution or the problem. And it all just builds up inside me. I always used to make my own worlds, my own stories, my own Middle Earth, if you will, to escape this reality. And sometimes I get kinda stuck in them.

I think Nightwish's song Escapist describes it perfectly.

A nightingale in a golden cage
That's me locked inside reality's maze
Come someone make my heavy heart light
Come undone, bring me back to life

...

This is who I am, Escapist, Paradise seeker

Not to so vainly associate myself with a beautiful nightingale but I love that image. :laugh:

And sometimes, I feel like I'm stuck inside myself, which I can't quite explain. Have you ever felt, that when you walk down the street or talk to someone, instead of like, your "energy", your self, just projecting out to others, it's almost as though you're sucking yourself in, like you're closing yourself up and you're trapped within that. It's so hard to explain... =/ Or like when you're cold, and you shiver and try to pull yourself closer to your body and stuff. I always feel that when I look at people, I just scream emotion, my friend can tell when I'm lying or when I'm upset, but other people... she says I'm very closed off, very expressionless. And I never thought so, my body language and face are huge giveaways.

I don't know where I'm going with this. :laugh:

musicinmysoul

April 29th, 2010, 04:09 AM

I think it´s good to dream, but I guess in a way you have to choose your dreams... If that makes sense... Some dreams will never come true, but it´s still nice to dream. Some of my dreams could probably come true, if I really gave it a try. But I guess I don´t believe in myself enough to actually try. Although I do think that if I was given the chance, I could be a pretty good actor.
And I think the main reason why I write, and want to be published is, ex ept form having a lot of imagniation, that in my stories I can be whoever I want and do all the things I want to do.
Some things I really want, and I guess I just have to kick my iwn *** and actually start to do things.. Give it a try and at least be able to say I tried.
And while I learn to do that I can listen to TH music and be inspired and maybe decide to actually try to do what I want.
I feel like I´m trapped in myself, if that makes sense. I´m the one stopping me, mostly, but it´s like I can´t change it either.

ItaughtGustavDrums

April 29th, 2010, 12:21 PM

Musicinmysoul the kind of dreams you are describing are within realistic reason and can become reality, you really should get the courage to push yourself instead of waiting for someone or something to do it for you cause that might never come along. It's hard when you want your parents or friends to tell you they believe in you and push you towards achieving your dreams and they are not doing that but that shouldn't stop you. Look at Georg and what ray ray2384 said about him in a post in this thread, if he had been like you he would have been some boring suicidal dentist right now :P.
You have to give it a chance and say at least you gave it your all, else you might look back one day and deeply regret not giving it a try and that will hurt a lot, then you will wish you could turn back time.
The way I see it you have nothing to lose, sure it might not work out and it will suck having to deal with the disappointment but it's way better than never even trying because for all you know it might just work out for you and think of how awesome that would be.

hmmm the above sounds like one of those cheesy inspirational cards you find in supermarkets... just a really long one haha. It's still true thou :P .... and sorry I'm a bit hyper today :P

Also thank you for your very kind and wise words. They msade me feel better. I'm not having the best possible day, so they helped me to feel definitely better and I appriciate them a lot. However I try to tune down as much as I can from now on. It's eventually for the best for everyone... Less decoding and questioning, it makes things easier and annoys people less. After all it's all about getting along with people :smile:

You should do what you feel best but I don't think "tuning down" is in order, personally I love psychology and the deeper people get the more interesting I find it, and questions ... are always good!!! If emotions and those kind of things annoy certain people they really shouldn't be wasting their time reading this thread then....
And you are most welcome, I am sincerely glad I could help out in some way :smile:

musicinmysoul

April 29th, 2010, 04:32 PM

Musicinmysoul the kind of dreams you are describing are within realistic reason and can become reality, you really should get the courage to push yourself instead of waiting for someone or something to do it for you cause that might never come along. It's hard when you want your parents or friends to tell you they believe in you and push you towards achieving your dreams and they are not doing that but that shouldn't stop you. Look at Georg and what ray ray2384 said about him in a post in this thread, if he had been like you he would have been some boring suicidal dentist right now :P.
You have to give it a chance and say at least you gave it your all, else you might look back one day and deeply regret not giving it a try and that will hurt a lot, then you will wish you could turn back time.
The way I see it you have nothing to lose, sure it might not work out and it will suck having to deal with the disappointment but it's way better than never even trying because for all you know it might just work out for you and think of how awesome that would be.

I thin my parents would support me if I really did try. But I´m not an outgoing person and I always say I want things and have basically eve tried, so I guess they don´t thin I can or something, that I never will try.. But I do thin they woulod support me... But sometimes I kind of wish that they, or someone else, would have pushed me, to actually to some of the thigns I want to do. Say that they know I can and will be great... I wish I met someone that would see that in me, and really believe in me,
I just have to give myself a kick in the ***... And you are right, most of my dreams can be achieved. I just live in the wrong country....
One of my fears is to be 60 years old and ook back on all the things I wanted, but nveer tried. And it´s definitely time to start trying.

Amdee

April 29th, 2010, 04:48 PM

For that same reason... doing things just to feel like Iäm doing something I want to do, not because it's necessary the most reasonable thing to do, I'm flying over the Atlantic some day to see my favorite band. I slowly start to do things I want to do, no matter what others think. Baby steps, but I'm trying :smile:

I kind of feel like I wished my parents would have pushe me a bit more instead pf being overly protective. But I can't really blame them either... It's just baby steps, baby steps...

musicinmysoul

April 29th, 2010, 04:54 PM

When you go Hannele, I´ll go with you if you let me :)
That´s one thing that will never happen if I have to do it alone. I really want to go to USA, but I´m afraid of flying.... :)
I´m not saying my parents are overly protective (well maybe sometimes) even if a certain someone apparently thought they were holding me and my sister back and that they are the reason why we don´t do things and are more outoging and whatever. Which isn´t really true.
I don´t really think about what other people think, it´s my dreams. I just have to learn to follow them.

Amdee

April 29th, 2010, 05:14 PM

I can always use some company... Even a thought of standing alone at the JFK airport scares the sh/t out of me, but I already decided that I'll go - alone or with someone- but I'll beat that stupid fear of not suriviving if I just decide to survive :)

_wacky4macky_

April 29th, 2010, 05:28 PM

Okay, I want to start, because I often find things leaving me wonder or confused and I don't know where to share them with you and maybe hear your own interpretations or feelings of it.

I watched once again Billenia17's video All they wanted, it comes with a price.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo2eGffHB7U

It always makes my heart aching in a very painful way. I noticed how differently people see this video and I want to know, how do you see it? What it's all about from your point of view?

i saw this video too and immediately it saddened me!
As the vid began they were chipper young boys, so happy that they were finally seeing all their "dreams come true"! The video moved on in their lives and their fame...and their faces grew older and their faces lost a little bit of light every year and their smiles were tired.
And although we did not see much of TH for most of 2009,
the phase of Bill's life with his dreads seemed a bit to me like he was really sad.
I think that's when he was starting to talk about "true love" more than ever...and I think he was longing for it and wondering if it was unrealistic right now.
The whole vid pretty much means to me that all of THIS *holds out TH Fandom* was their dream. for them to make music, what they loved doing most, and have people love their music too!
But, as time grew on (like in the video), they didn't necessarily lose passion for their music or fans- but I think they began to realize that while gaining all this, they also had to sacrifice a whole lot of normal yet special moments in a persons life.
Such as, having ice cream with your parents, going to a HS reunion, walking their dog, or walking down the street and holding their gf's hand..they can't just do that without ppl following them, and judging them, and saying horrible things at them while their cameras flash in their faces.
So, I think the video pretty much says, that they've become tortured souls, stuck between two lives they love very much.
And as the video comes to a close- they're little again. And it's like nothing has changed and they don't have all the worries that would someday haunt them.
:/

amberrsaurr

May 2nd, 2010, 12:07 AM

i saw this video too and immediately it saddened me!
As the vid began they were chipper young boys, so happy that they were finally seeing all their "dreams come true"! The video moved on in their lives and their fame...and their faces grew older and their faces lost a little bit of light every year and their smiles were tired.
And although we did not see much of TH for most of 2009,
the phase of Bill's life with his dreads seemed a bit to me like he was really sad.
I think that's when he was starting to talk about "true love" more than ever...and I think he was longing for it and wondering if it was unrealistic right now.
The whole vid pretty much means to me that all of THIS *holds out TH Fandom* was their dream. for them to make music, what they loved doing most, and have people love their music too!
But, as time grew on (like in the video), they didn't necessarily lose passion for their music or fans- but I think they began to realize that while gaining all this, they also had to sacrifice a whole lot of normal yet special moments in a persons life.
Such as, having ice cream with your parents, going to a HS reunion, walking their dog, or walking down the street and holding their gf's hand..they can't just do that without ppl following them, and judging them, and saying horrible things at them while their cameras flash in their faces.
So, I think the video pretty much says, that they've become tortured souls, stuck between two lives they love very much.
And as the video comes to a close- they're little again. And it's like nothing has changed and they don't have all the worries that would someday haunt them.
:/

Exactly! Very well said :)
ANYWHOO
I just heard Humanoid in German for the first time and I am like in total hormonal shock at how he pronounced ''humanoid''. 8DDDD

Amdee

May 12th, 2010, 06:31 PM

This thread (pages 2-4):
http://www.tokiohotel.com/us/forum/showthread.php?t=8388
has a great conversation of sex, power, control and sexuality. I wanted to continue it here...

Note: Just my opinions. I'm not a psychologist or know them personally. Everything is based on my own observation and limited knowledge of the subject + own experiences

For a question of whether or not Bill likes the power, I'm sure very few disagrees? I see the clear pattern here:

Attention -> power -> control -> safety

I think him being a leader or wanting that role has deeper roots than just dominant character. Most of the control freaks are afraid and/or neurotic. Twins are control freaks. The power they have are giving them a chanmge to be in control. Just like starting to produce themselves, have their hands on everything... Could that be the sign of craving for more security over things? I don't necessary think that Bill's attention seeking is only satisfieing his need of power, but in a way also seeking for satisfaction to his need of security. Could it be?

Now... when asked if Bill has a power... Of course he does. I myself am quite controlfreak. From my experience, it's really never enough. Controlfreak searches constantly new ways to predict the future and control the environment. From that point of view I think he could enjoy and find satisfaction, feeling of control, when he can guide masses. It's all about control and power. That's what I think.

If we very quickly take a look at the decreased popularity in Europe (I don't want to go to that topic any further), isn't it also a sign of something they can't control? Could it cause anxiety, because they don't have the control over it? They can't predict the future as much as they like? For control freaks, the predicting and power over everything is everything. I think it has something to do with their feeling of losing that control (and power as one of it's element) and therefore letting "strings slip through their fingers"? Isn't that a frightening thought for someone, who craves the feel of security coming from the feeling of control?

Nereida

May 12th, 2010, 06:42 PM

Now that they are losing control in Europe, they go and search for new territories like Asia for example, to get the feeling back?Naaah, probably just business..:eyeroll:

Amdee

May 12th, 2010, 06:49 PM

Now that they are losing control in Europe, they go and search for new territories like Asia for example, to get the feeling back?Naaah, probably just business..:eyeroll:

Of course it's business, but I personally have a very strong belief that people don't act only based on common sense. Asia is a wise and obvious direction for them businesswise, but I think at the same they might hope that it will feed other needs in them, too?

Hah, I'm so naturalist for being a humanist sometimes :laugh:

ray_ray2384

May 12th, 2010, 06:52 PM

There was this science news not too long ago that people who like to make jokes are more aggressive and dominant..that can be related to power>sex aswell.Though Tom makes much more jokes...

Don't you just love how Bill does this with his angel voice

" Me , and the sexiest man title? i am very suprised" lmao, he wasn't suprised at all..hahha
He really has created a very sexual image of himself, and maybe he feels it will be hard to live up to it in reality?

And if Tom says he likes to chase girls...then its hard to understand for me what Bill likes..He seems to be put off when people aren't amazed by him tbh.I feel like all the girls around him are all cute and stuff, and he says he like cuteness, but i feel like he awaits for somebody to come aggressively and take control over him...but like aggressive-fun-energetic type..so he doesn't have to be the leader..although he is that inside..but for starters, cause ha has been alone for long time and needs to get confidence back.
ANd yes he f*cks with them (us).Atleast they (we) get somekind of f*ck...
Okay this was a all a bit random

I think both bill/tom are aggressive/dominant. But...they manifest these same qualities in different ways. Bill is much more subtle while Tom is very forward and blunt.

I do think Bill is very aware of his sexual power over his fans/women/men. He feigns modesty and acts like he's not aware. But, he most definitely is! Lol!! I doubt he'd act/dress the way he does on stage unless he knew it'd have an effect on his audience.

Hmmm...I have this feeling that a woman who isn't starstruck by Bill's appearance will get his attention moreso than the one who can't seem to concentrate in his presence. I think for anyone to have control over Bill they'd have to be really powerful person in their own right.

Amdee

May 12th, 2010, 06:59 PM

Nereida

May 12th, 2010, 07:04 PM

What interests me is that if Bill want the power, enjoys the power and it gives him satisfaction, why do I feel like he wants a person who can be equally as powerful (character, not position)?

Oh Bill and his contradicted signals... :roll:
:laugh:

He will want to make it very clear how powerful of a man he is by getting that powerful woman.lol:-)

Amdee

May 12th, 2010, 07:08 PM

I can't say what I think of him and power, because it's not appropriate, but I think he is just like many other powerful person - in certain situations they want to give that power away, because it frees them...kind of. You know, what I mean :)

ray_ray2384

May 12th, 2010, 07:12 PM

I agree. Whoever ends up with either one of them, need to have a strong character, because without, she/he could be soooooo wrapped around a littlefinger in less than a minute and after that the game is lost. I'm not saying love is a game for them, but I think they want someone who has power enough to stick behind his/her own thoughts.

What interests me is that if Bill want the power, enjoys the power and it gives him satisfaction, why do I feel like he wants a person who can be equally as powerful (character, not position)?

Oh Bill and his contradicted signals... :roll:
:laugh:

regardless of his position, dominant or submissive, he'd still have power and control because he will get what he wants. Many people often think that a person who craves dominance is weak. That is not the case all the time. It takes strength to realize you have great power and then willingly give it up to a person you trust or, at least, share some of it.

Bill said in a past interview that he recognizes his need to control everything around him and sometimes wishes he wasn't like that all the time. He knows there are positives and negatives attached to his control freak ways. But, I do think a part of him would like to give up some power and not have to worry about everything; just relax. and this is where the importance of trust comes in. In order for a control freak to give up some control/power....he has to trust and feel safe.

Nereida

May 12th, 2010, 07:25 PM

Maybe true love will change his ways:P
So what if he likes somebody who is just like him, doesn't give in and needs to get everything her way, would he accept being more submissive or would they remain equal and fight?
i just wonder what is his mother like personality wise...They say we choose our partner after the opposite sex parent, but with them it is more complicated because of the divorce.

ray_ray2384

May 12th, 2010, 07:31 PM

Amdee

May 12th, 2010, 07:32 PM

regardless of his position, dominant or submissive, he'd still have power and control because he will get what he wants. Many people often think that a person who craves dominance is weak. That is not the case all the time. It takes strength to realize you have great power and then willingly give it up to a person you trust or, at least, share some of it.

Bill said in a past interview that he recognizes his need to control everything around him and sometimes wishes he wasn't like that all the time. He knows there are positives and negatives attached to his control freak ways. But, I do think a part of him would like to give up some power and not have to worry about everything; just relax. and this is where the importance of trust comes in. In order for a control freak to give up some control/power....he has to trust and feel safe.

And it is very, very difficult to trust like that.. especially when you have already a standard which is basically impossible to reach by any other person (a twin). It will requer a lot for them to give away that control, because like you said, it needs trust and in their cases... why go with anything less than their definition of trustworthy person: someone who's been there for all their lives + 9 months. Someones who once was you and who you were once. That's a pretty heavy league to thrust into for any outsider...

Nereida

May 12th, 2010, 07:41 PM

Bill has said that his mom is really the only person who can say no to him and he'll listen to what she is saying.

Oh i haven't even read that.I always thought she let him do everything what he wanted and didn't restrict.:exclamation:

About the trust..i think nobody who is gonna have a relationship with one of them, will doubt that they will always be second...Also they need to find their love at the same time..i feel it is very hard for one if the other is having a relationship..might have been easier in the childhood, but now...

Amdee

May 12th, 2010, 07:51 PM

You know, I quote here a great, amazing fanfic Count the moments by Jelly Pencil. It hit me hard, when I first read it. It's only a few lines (a series drabbles, which means short stories of exactly 100 words), but even as being just a work of imagination, it tells so much... I can somehow see it happening.

"Tom loses his virginity when he’s thirteen.

Bill knows because his twin comes running home to brag about it immediately afterward. Bill wonders if Tom even said goodbye to the girl, or if he just took off to tell Bill all about it.

Bill asks about it even though he doesn’t want to know, and all Tom can say, his face still flushed and sweaty and his lips swollen, is – you should have been there. Bill rolls his eyes even as his heart jumps."

Nereida

May 12th, 2010, 08:20 PM

Amdee

May 12th, 2010, 08:27 PM

This gives me many thoughts.I am not sure what you exactly got from it, maybe i am not getting the point it should be gotten.I need to think about it while sleeping.Gute Nacht!.Its 3.00 a.m lol. i am addicted to this place.

And I think my point didn't even come clear, because I quoted only a short piece of it and even with the whole fic, it would have been mostly about emotions. Don't worry, I probably wouldn't get it either :D

Yep, it's 3am, but... luckily I can sleep late tomorrow!

dejavu711

May 12th, 2010, 08:33 PM

boymeetsgirlknowwhattodo

May 13th, 2010, 05:52 AM

I can't see the video anymore, but that's ok. I suppose I know what it's about based on the comments here.

I personally think that this life they're living is both a blessing and a curse. I know it's everything they'd ever wanted, and they (especially Bill) has stated time and again that they're willing to pay the price for this. They're living the life they'd always yearned for, and yes, I think they're addicted to fame, and again especially Bill. I have this feeling that should this ever stop for them, should success ever leave them, Bill will be the hardest hit. He will probably have the hardest time among all of them. I remember watching an interview where someone asked them if they could see themselves doing this for the rest of their lives and Georg (if I remember correctly) said "With these guys? I'm not sure. Maybe." So Georg, in saying that, probably has envisioned that an end would be inevitable for the band. But I'm not sure if Bill would ever be ready for that. I think even if the band were to split up, Bill would be chasing fame in another way. Solo, maybe, or a new band, or something.

Let's put it this way, I can imagine Tom doing behind-the-scenes work. And Gustav and Georg, I can imagine them living a life out of the spotlight. But I'm not sure about Bill. I think he craves attention too much. I'm not sure if he could survive a life away from all the fame. So yes, I say it's a blessing and curse for Bill because as much as he wants privacy and a peaceful life, I think he loves fame more. I'm not sure if that true love he's yearning for is going to change that either. So the girl he ends up with is either going to be one spectacular lady who can live it up with him, or an average girl-next-door (who is spectacular too, just in a different way) who can give him a semblance of normalcy.

Nereida

May 13th, 2010, 06:50 AM

They definently are not only intrested in conquering the music business(B&T)..Bill is going to the right direction with this fashion thing.If he makes it there, it will be guaranteed fame for the rest of the life.( i want that clothing line already..lol) I wouldn't underestimate Tom's desire for eternal fame aswell :mrgreen:
I don't blame him for wanting all that fame tbh, i would be the same.And i think deep inside he feels its a blessing, this life he has.I think he even enjoys the bad sides of it.And in the future when they feel they have all the fame, respect and power they wanted...i think they will change their ways and want to give back somehow.But even when doing that, they want to be more influential than others.
Sometimes i feel all this fame starts to shadow their music though

Edit:I feel kind of bad writing and saying those things , am i the only one?

me0w

May 13th, 2010, 04:29 PM

What interests me is that if Bill want the power, enjoys the power and it gives him satisfaction, why do I feel like he wants a person who can be equally as powerful (character, not position)?

I think he has changed his views, and this might be OT, but once i read that Bill would like if his girl is bit uncontrollable. Maybe he would like to control her ?

ray_ray2384

May 13th, 2010, 04:47 PM

Since he says he's a control freak, I believe he's used to dominating many situations he is in. It's what he does. So, if he's in a relationship, he may continue that habit. I think what Bill meant was he'd like a girl who's a challenge, someone who won't give in too easily. If you think about it, Bill is probably used to getting his way all the time. He leads and others follow. But....in a relationship, doing the same thing repeatedly could get boring. I think regardless of who Bill chooses to be with, he will try to get away with as much as possible. It will be up to the girl to create limits.

I see the same dynamic with Bill and Tom. Bill wants Tom to do something and Tom refuses to budge. I'll use the twin tattoo as an example. In 2008, I remember Bill saying that he'd love to get a tattoo with Tom. Tom said he'd never do something like that because he didn't want to mark his body in such a way. He set a boundary that Bill couldn't cross at the time. But, now....it's different. Tom has changed his views on tattoos and is thinking about getting one with Bill. I guess Bill had to slowly convince Tom that getting a tattoo would be a good idea. It worked! :lol: Bill influenced Tom to dye his hair black. Tom also started wearing more black and now....his clothes are more fitted. Is Bill fully responsible? If so, I guess Bill has more power/influence over Tom than vice-versa. Ultimately, this proves that if there is something Bill wants. He'll whatever it takes to get it!

As a fan, does anyone feel that Bill/Tom/Georg/Gustav have power/influence over you? Have you changed as a person since you became a Tokio Hotel fan?

Amdee

May 13th, 2010, 05:01 PM

I agree that Bill has power over things in a way Ray said it. It's a cliche to say this, but for me it rreally looks like that Bill gets what he wants . no matter how long it takes, but he'll get it. Bill has natural charisma, Bill has some natural, undescibable talent to dominate situations. It's like when you look any kind of situation with any kind of people, whwn Bill steps in, he steals the show. You can't ignore him, you can't forget him once you've met him. I know I can't be objective on this one, becauise I'm a fan, but do you agree?

And since he gets things so often his way, I guess he sometimes misses the challenge. As much as I hate to say this, I still say that Tom is very much wrapped around Bill's finger. He has some power to resist Bill, buyt there is something so strong in BIll's determination, stubborness and natural charisma, that even Tom is unarmed against Bill in the end.

I try to think if being a fan has changed me somehow. I honestly don't know the answer. I admit their meaning for me is probably bigger than it should be, they steal bigger part of my life than they should and I sometimes feel annoyed about it, but I'm yet not willing to change it either, because - TBH - I enjoy this. In that way they have power over me.

But change? They haven't affect on my styule, taste in music, clothes or my opinions on things (meaningful things, at least - I'm not counting that because of Tom I've first time seen guitar playing hot). More like they've answered on some call in me, but I don't know exactly what it is. I honestly don't have an answer for that right now. I can't find anything to grab on this subject. They have a huge power, but they haven't changed me. It doesn't sound right either... :???:

Nats

May 14th, 2010, 04:47 PM

I have to agree with Amdee. I was thinking if they have changed me, and maybe they have, but I have no idea how. As Amdee said for herself, my music taste or clothes or opinions haven't changed. I'm maybe more accepting of my bad traits (stubborn as a mule, trust issues, nervous all the time) but also this forum helped too. It made me see that it's not the end of the world if I have flaws. I think that's the biggest change in me.

All my life I was almost perfect. Nice to people, cheerful, I had temper tantrums and showed my 'bad' side at home, but outside I was the nice - albeit lazy - girl that no one could say anything bad about. I guess I was raised that way, trying to stamp out my bad traits and have a clean record, as it were.

But reading posts from forum members, seeing the emotion and motives behind them, seeing the boys and seeing what I can of them, I'm beginning to see that it's not that bad after all. :grin:

I mean, I'm a walking paradox. :laugh: I'm perfectionist and I have a bit of OCD with order, but I'm also lazy as f*ck and until I get started with keeping order, my area looks like a bomb exploded. :laugh: Also I realise I am incredibly vain and I'm a bit arrogant and proud, yet I jump a mile if a guy touches me and I have ***** self confidence. I'm talkative and playful and a big pervert, but not many people really see that, just this cute faced girl that's shy and quiet. I'm Miss Cynic yet I'm a big old softie with love and romance schmuck. :laugh:

I guess just.. this band and forum taught me to accept all my sides, the good, the bad, and the ugly. :laugh:

Trink&Tirsh

May 14th, 2010, 05:07 PM

I mean, I'm a walking paradox. :laugh: I'm perfectionist and I have a bit of OCD with order, but I'm also lazy as f*ck and until I get started with keeping order, my area looks like a bomb exploded. :laugh: Also I realise I am incredibly vain and I'm a bit arrogant and proud, yet I jump a mile if a guy touches me and I have ***** self confidence. I'm talkative and playful and a big pervert, but not many people really see that, just this cute faced girl that's shy and quiet. I'm Miss Cynic yet I'm a big old softie with love and romance schmuck. :laugh:

wow, that part pretty much describes a huge part of me. are you my other half?:?

goldriley

May 14th, 2010, 05:22 PM

wow, that part pretty much describes a huge part of me. are you my other half?:?

Haha, I was going to say the same thing when I read that!! We are a special bunch of people aren't we?! :lol:

Nats

May 14th, 2010, 05:26 PM

We can all be halves of ourselves! :laugh:

Or wait, shouldn't that be quaters? :???: Oh wth, I dunno. We are part of each other. xD *cue Circle of Life music* :laugh:

Amdee

May 14th, 2010, 05:50 PM

Seems like all TH fans are the same :laugh:

I am very kind, friendly, fair and sweet outside. I smile a lot, I try to take everyone in and leave nobody out. I seem to be strong and survive in every situation. I've beenm raised that way. I hide constantly my bad manners, my bad character, my evilness as a humanbeing. I show outside kind, perfect girl-next-door... Maybe a bit loud and sometimes I say before I think, but overall I fight till the last breath to not show my bad sides. Truly I have terribly low self esteem, I'm arrogant, dominant, selfish, cynical, pessimistic and hypocrite. I hide my anger to a point where I explode. It's usuially home. I hate myself and my ugly character, yet I'm narsistic. I'm all and everything and still nothing. I don't even know if I hate myself or not! I'm awfully difficult person to deal with. I'm unstable and uncabable of keep my interest in one thing too long.

I don't now if I've changed. TH have teached me tolerance and acceptance. I've always been open minded, but I truly think that Bill has teached me it even more. It reminds me of a boy, who I knew years ago and he was transvestate. Well, not really, but he had an alter ego called Laura. He liked to be called Laura when he was on that mood etc. For me, he was just Laura even if I tried to learn to call him by his real name. One day I realised that it was completely natural for me to call a boy Laura. He wore regular boys' clothes etc. but he was just Laura for me. It didn't even occur to me anymore that Laura is a girl's name, because it was so natural.

Bill has teached me things in a same way. Before Bill I accepted the boys wearing makeup or painting fingernails, but it was something I NOTICED. It was oklay, but it cdaught my eye everytime. With Bill I've realised that it has disappeared. I see Bill, I don't see a boy wearing makeup or something. It has become so natural to me that I don't notice things like that anymore. I think it's wonderful.

Nereida

May 14th, 2010, 05:59 PM

Bill and Tom both made me tolerant to guys who have long hair..lol thats so deep i know:eyeroll:, but its true..i couldn't stand it...and i hated fake nails-but now i am so tolerant.Also i feel more comfortable being alone, waiting for love, cause i feel i am not in it alone-if he can do it, i can do it.Although the pressure is hard to take from friends, family. He really inspires me.Oops i forgot-Bill made me rethink the idea that all guys my age are stupid idiots.And in general restored my faith in men.
So lets hope his not gay!lmao just joking, i don't care really

Nats

May 14th, 2010, 06:12 PM

Seems like all TH fans are the same :laugh:

I am very kind, friendly, fair and sweet outside. I smile a lot, I try to take everyone in and leave nobody out. I seem to be strong and survive in every situation. I've beenm raised that way. I hide constantly my bad manners, my bad character, my evilness as a humanbeing. I show outside kind, perfect girl-next-door... Maybe a bit loud and sometimes I say before I think, but overall I fight till the last breath to not show my bad sides. Truly I have terribly low self esteem, I'm arrogant, dominant, selfish, cynical, pessimistic and hypocrite. I hide my anger to a point where I explode. It's usuially home. I hate myself and my ugly character, yet I'm narsistic. I'm all and everything and still nothing. I don't even know if I hate myself or not! I'm awfully difficult person to deal with. I'm unstable and uncabable of keep my interest in one thing too long.

You are sooo me in that post. In fact I had a bit of an identity crisis when I read your post. :laugh:

I've actually come to see that... I am openminded, sure, even for small trivial matters. I just shrug and say "so what?". But it makes me cringe when I hear my family's or friend's comments over the band, especially Bill. My sisters can be really spiteful sometimes and they just CANNOT grasp the idea of acceptance. And they had the nerve to call ME narrow minded?! We've gone over this before so I won't go any further.

But I think it's like a test of our limits. In some way, being a fan of this band is like automatically being prejudiced. I have friends who constantly refer to my 'crap music taste' etc. Yet I'm still a fan. I think also we find that we have an inner strength there, one we maybe cannot see for ouselves.

I could say more but my brain is half asleep at the moment, I'll come back later. :laugh:

ray_ray2384

May 14th, 2010, 06:30 PM

Seems like all TH fans are the same :laugh:

I wouldn't say we are all the same! Lol!!! If we were...would there be as much drama?! Lol!!!

As with Nereida, Bill has opened my eyes to the world of androgyny. I've never seen a man like him and I have yet to meet a man like him! :lol: He's definitely one of a kind. I have more acceptance for men who are into makeup and have embraced their femininity.

Nats

May 14th, 2010, 08:16 PM

I don't want my heart,
I don't want the pain,
I don't want my head,
Don't want this ****,
Don't want this filth.
Don't want...!

Humanoid.
Humanoid.
Humanoid. [Come back!]
Humanoid.
Come back and take away my heart,
take away my pain.

This really struck me today while I read the translation lyrics. I have read them before, but for some reason they didnt' hit me like tonight.

I wonder if his idea of himself is different than what we seem to see. I mean, I apparently do that. What I think of myself and what others seem to think of me are two opposite things. Of course I don't expect him to look into a mirror and go all Johnny Bravo on himself, and marvel at his beauty, but it's almost as though he loathes himself.

I'm not even really sure why I'm bringing this up...

Amdee

May 14th, 2010, 09:14 PM

I'm a bit afraid to participate on this convo. There are so many factors moving and to be interpret. It seems to be very sensitive subject in this fandom. I'm not egen sure, because for me Bill is so hard to read.

In general level... I wouldn't be surprised. It's always difficult to say how much of the lyrics are from Bill's pen and how much he has been affecting on them, but if we look at lyrics in English (I use Enhlish album here, because it's more familiar to me), certain themes seem to repeat themselves. Interesting choises of words...

The lyrics of Strange hit me personally. Especially the part...

Under the radar
Out of the system
Caught in the spotlight
That's my existence
(which implies to me that his existence is dependent on that spotlight, he only is there, is for real and he is on a trap with that existence. Without the spotlight he is nothing)

Those kind of lyrics combined with little things like

"You see my soul. I'm a nightmare." from In your shadow
or
"Lights on, lights off. Nothing works. I'm cool. I'm great. I'm a jerk. I feed myself lies with the words left unspoken." from That Day

I kind of think that Bill sees himself differently than we do. Like he sees some sort of dark, evil, bad, ugly side of himself that we don't see. It's just a feeling and I can't right now explain it any better. I think the whole album is full of lyrics implieing darker side of the bright cover, messed up behind the scenes. I think we all see those bad things in ourselves and we try to hide them from outside world. It's so unbelievablöy hard to admit and face the evil in yourself. I think in Bill's case, it's more exaggerated than in ours, because he has to have his flawless image. Over and over again he brings out the fact that not everything is what it seems, but yet his image is disarmingly charming, innocent even, shining. If I were him, with my current character, I would be sick of myself for acting so... so... so well-behaving, so flawless. We look at Bill and we see extremely beautiful person, but in no way we can know if he sees the same when he looks at himself. Very beautiful people can also have insecurities.

But mostly I'm interested of how he sees his inner self. When I go on bad depression mode, all I can see is evil in myself. I explain my every action in a way that they lead to my bad, selfish, arrogant character. Even my love is only a selfish attempt to collect all the goodness to myself. How Bill sees himself insidse, how outside? That's an interesting question... For all his life he has had to prove himself and all his life he has been raised my haters. How does that affect on humanbeing?

Nats

May 14th, 2010, 09:39 PM

I think the last part is interesting. Yep, I know all about self loathing and just seeing every bad thing about yourself. Just recently, I had sorta (was forced into) agreeing to send some money (via mail, I don't have Paypal), to a friend in Belgium. She was to gather money with other common friends, to buy a ticket to a metal festival for one of our friends who can't afford it and it's to be a surprise. My deal was to send over 21 euro. In truth, it really was all I had, cause I don't get alot of pocket money per month and it's usually spent for college supplies. But stupid stupid selfish me spontaneously decided to buy a book on vampires, and now in the end I have no money at all. I feel so selfish and guilty, cause well.. I can't ask for money, they won't give it, and they would definitely ask where it's going.

I've been avoiding my friends these days, cause I can't face to admit I was so arrogant as to buy myself that book.

Anyway yeah, I think his is magnified. Because of the life he lives, and because he does have to keep that front. He needs that pretty, polished image of Bill Kaulitz. Much as it'd disappoint me if he was in reality completely different to what I see, I'd have to accept it as just a side of him.
He's got a very controlling nature and he'll slowly turn you to his ways. Which is why I also think he needs someone who will put her foot down at times. He's like a snake charming its pray nearer, he needs someone who can look away from him. if you get what I mean.

I also think that despite the girls throwing himself at him and the grand words that get spoken of him when they are spoken, he doesn't really take it in. Of course I can't know what thoughts go on in his head. But I don't think they are any worse than the average human. Average human = average lifestyle, which he doesnt' have, yet he is still human. Flaws and all.

transparent elegance

May 14th, 2010, 09:45 PM

Oh! Oh! I have an opinion on this!
But first I have to go into background about why I have this opinion on Bill.

Um, so for me personally, I used to be a kind of awkward ugly duckling (I'd show you pictures except I refuse to be seen like that). I was kind of on the fat side and had no sense of style and bad acne.

Then puberty ended (in a sense) and the acne mostly went away and I figured out how to dress and lost weight and gained boobs and suddenly... guys started paying attention to me.

But, you know, before that happened 6th and 7th grade were tough on me. People weren't all that nice and I had to learn how to dish out insults and stand my ground. If people were nice, they wanted something from me.
I ended up very messed up around 8th and 9th grade. Like, why are people being nice to me? I'm not that attractive but they keep telling me I am so maybe that's why? I couldn't trust people because I wondered if all they saw in me was my looks and I didn't think I was very attractive so obviously they'd stop being nice eventually.

Anyway, me and my issues aside, I think Bill has trouble with that. He's said that in school he wasn't very well liked and he was bullied. But suddenly when he became famous girls wanted him.
He sees his fame and money as the only redeeming thing, the only thing that people want him for. I don't know if he looks in the mirror and sees himself as attractive
(honestly, I sometimes wonder if maybe he piles on makeup and dyes his hair to compensate for feeling ugly?), he might but he might not. I'm on the fence there.

But still, not being liked by people until you have a specific trait (looks, wealth, etc.) isn't a nice feeling. It makes you wonder if there's something wrong with you that people couldn't like you before that, like maybe you're an ugly or boring person on the inside?

I think Bill might feel like that sometimes. Like he's lacking as a person and people only like him for what he has.

Just a thought.

ray_ray2384

May 14th, 2010, 10:24 PM

I agree with you, Kat. I'll use myself as a quick example. I need to lose weight. and I know for a fact that once I become really skinny again. The type of guys I want to attract will come knocking on my down like never before. But, they are not doing it now because of the way I look. So, when I achieve the look I am going for, and those guys do pay attention. In the back of my mind, I'll always think that the only reason they want to know me is because I'm skinny/more attractive to them. When I wasn't, they didn't give me the time of day. and it's not like I'll change as a person inside. I'll always be me but with a different look. and then, I'll also wonder what will happen if I gain the weight back? Will I still be loved? Or will I be dropped for another girl who has a skinny bod?

I believe it's the same principle for Bill and Tom. When they were younger, people made fun of them constantly. Their peers didn't accept their different looks; didn't understand them. When they reach the age of 15, BOOM! Instant fame. All of a sudden, everyone is interested in Bill/Tom. The girls want to be them, kids are asking the guys for autographs, giving them even more attention then they had before. I mean, Tom/Bill said they couldn't continue with public school because they were often harassed and the school schedule didn't work with their band life. To go from the most hated to the most wanted couldn't have been an easy pill to swallow. Even though, so many ppl wanted bill/tom's attention...I think in the back of their heads they thought the only reason ppl cared for them now was because of their new fame. If people didn't give care before they made it big. Why else would they give a dxmn after the fame? Internally, Bill/Tom were the same. But, externally, they had a different image. and that's what changed ppl's opinions of them.

Perhaps the reason Bill is so addicted to fame/spotlight is because he feels w/o it...he's not the same. Does he wonder if people would still care about him if he isn't this perfectly, well-kept, beautiful young man? and with Tom, I think he has the same insecurities where he thinks the main reason people are interested in him is entirely superficial. What if the fame, money, fancy clothes, expensive cars, flashy watches were gone? of course, Bill/Tom's real friends wouldn't care about those things. But, what about everyone else?

Amdee/Nat: I also agree that the way Bill views himself is most likely very different from the way we think of him. Bill's fans are likely to think he's perfect, beautiful, amazing and a list of other adoring compliments. But, if Bill were to ask to compliment himself. Maybe he wouldn't choose those same words. I do think he's aware of his power over others.

boymeetsgirlknowwhattodo

May 14th, 2010, 11:54 PM

Hmmm.... all of you have such interesting thoughts on the boys and their fame/lives. I love how one minute I can come here and laugh at all the light-hearted stuff, and the next minute I find myself pondering over the pretty deep things that are posted here. It's great. :)

I see it a little differently. I personally find Bill a mystery. I really do. I used to be a Lightsider, back during the Schrei/Scream days. I loved Bill then. I still do now, but I've mentioned this before, the Bill I see today is not the Bill I fell in love with. And that's not his fault at all. People change. And who he is today is probably who he has always been, it's just that I perceive him differently now. I used to think Bill was a very self-assured young man. He seemed to know himself inside out, and he was always himself. Remember the videos of him having his 'private party' where he was foolinf around singing to Kate Winslet and dancing to Michael Jackson? Yeah, I can't imagine him doing that now. He probably still does it with people he's close to, behind closed doors, but these days he's more guarded, he's more wary, and he's more poised and 'flawless'. He doesn't let himself go as much as he used to. Again, not his fault. It's just that I prefer the old Bill. And I'm not saying I want him to change who he is now. I've just accepted the fact that this is who Bill is now. If I don't like him the way he is, then I should just move on because I can't expect people to stay the same forever.

And yeah, on the topic of whether TH has changed who I am, no. It's a blatant lie if I said they hadn't influenced me in any way because of course they have. I used to hate emo music. I thought it was nonsense and pretentious. I know TH is not emo, but some of their lyrics verge on being emo. But they've made me listen to other emo songs and go "Ok, maybe these lyrics do make sense to some people. I've got to let go of my prejudices." If it weren't for TH, I probably would listen to a song like "Strange" and dismiss it as teen-emo-trash. So in a way, TH has opened my eyes to the positive side of this genre of music. But in terms of my personality, dressing and thinking, no. I'm still the same person I was before I discovered TH. I'm a real girly-girl. Really into pink and lace and florals, blah blah, and I hate black nail polish on me. It looks good on some people, but on me, I puke. I'm also an endlessly positive person. If I could, I would choose to poop rainbows. I rarely get angry (emotional, yes) but I've never crossed over to rage or fury. I'm easygoing and yeah, generally nice to the point of being sickening to some ppl. Which explains why I didn't used to get 'emo' music. So in terms of how much they;ve influenced me, I think music is as far as it goes. They haven't changed me as a person..... at least not yet. I've only been a fan for a little over 2 years, so it's hard to say how much they're going to change me over the years.

I love this thread, by the way. Keep it alive! :)

musicinmysoul

May 15th, 2010, 10:35 AM

What you have talked about in the last 2 pages is something similar to what I have been thinking about, but never wrote here cause I didn´t know how to put it in words. I still don´t know if I can, but I´ll give it a try.

I have never before analyzed people like I (we) have analyzed Bill and Tom. Sure I have been big fans of other artists and gone to several concerts of the same band. But TH has affected me in a totally different way. I don´t know them, but still I feel a connection, cause I can relate to them. I can only imagine what they are like, but I think they might not be as far away from what I am, when you look deeper.
We have said many things about Bill and Tom. About Bill and Tom being very confident, about them both being insecure underneath the surface that we see. That even if Tom comes off as a player, we think that he really is a sweetheart. I wonder if, if we told what we thought, what we really thought about them, that Bill inspires us (and Tom), that he is strong for not caring what other people think, that Tom is a sweetheart, that there is something really special with them, and all the other good things we have said, that has nothing to to with their looks. Would they believe us? Do they see what we see? I know that if someone talked about me like we sometimes talk about Bill (all the good things) I don´t think I would believe them. Cause that`s not what most people see me as. People see me as shy, quiet, reserved, careful. But I´m not always like that, but I think I have become that person because people think I am like that, and expect me to be like that. And I was bullied when I was younger. That leaves marks, and I built walls, that I´m slowly breaking down.
I´m always been confident about some things, and not so confident about others, and that probably comes from being bullied. I´ve always wore clothes that I like, but I have never really stood out, and if I do it´s sutble. I dn´t care what other people think about the music I listen to, I really don`t. I couldn´t care less what people think about me not drinking alcohol, I just don´t like the taste. But when it comes to guys, and the way I look, I´m not so confident. I´ve never been even close to being popular. Now I´m too old to care, but it would have been nice to know guys wanted me. Sure, I have heard a few times that I´m pretty, or even beautiful, but not enough times to actually believe it. I do think sometimes that I´m cute, but at the same time it´s like am I cute enough? And my boobs, well, yeah I´m skinny, but I look like a 14 year old when it comes to my boobs. And the sad thing is, there are 14 year olds that have bigger boobs than I have, and that´s not exactly helping my self esteem.

Bill and Tom were bullied, girls didn´t like them, and then suddenly every girl wanted to be with them. Maybe Tom doesn´t want a relationship because, well he just doesn´t want a relationship right now. Or, deep inside, maybe so deep inside the doesn´t want to admit it, he is afraid, to let someone that close, to let someone actually see him. What do they want from him, would they like him.
Someone said, I don´t feel like looking for who it was, said something like Bill is hiding behind his makeup, and maybe he is. He has said that he doesn´t like when he´s not wearing makeup. But we think he is just as beautiful without it. Maybe he use makeup cause then he is satisfied with the he looks, he knows he looks good, and knows we think he looks good. And he can kind of hide behind the makeup, the clothes, the hair. That´s his... I don´t... shield? And I think him saying it´s so hard to have a girlfriend right now, or he doesn´t know what they want from him. He is also afraid of letting someone that close, they are both afraid of trusting someone (marks from being bullied, and not knowing what people really want with/from you when they went famous). I think Bill is afraid of what we would see, if we would really like him, if we saw him.
I still think that both Bill and Tom are very confident, just not about everything. And I probably forgot to say something about the above, but...

And what Hannele, and Nats, said about the lyrics. "You see my soul, I´m a nightmare" and other lyrics like that, they kind of worry me. even if I don´t know him. It could be "only" lyrics, but if not, is it really that bad?

And if TH has change me. Not really. As I said, I have enver cared what people think of the music I listen to, and I wear the clothes I want to wear even if I don´t stand out. But. They kind of helped me to actually change my style, and finally after thinking about it for several years, look more rock. And sure, I´m inspired by Bill. I wouldn´t go as far as him though, but I´m tired of being in the background, being like everyone else. I`ve felt different since I was like 7 years old (not as much now as when I was younger), so I might as well start dressing a little different. And even if I don´t really stand out. I want people to see me.

Sorry, I didn´t mean to write an essay... And I probably forgot to say something...

Nats

May 15th, 2010, 03:22 PM

Amdee

May 15th, 2010, 03:26 PM

I need to answer this thread, because I love youir ideas, but right now I'm too angry to do so, because all I could say is that Bill can shove his mascara into the hole where the sun don't shine (actually..not a bad idea at all :cffgrin: ) and Tom can next time try some laxative pills O.D to find some "new experiences", I don't give a rat's butt.

:laugh:

I'll be back later.

Nereida

May 15th, 2010, 04:09 PM

Everybody gets bullied in school.Thats the way things work.But usually, people grow up together with their classmates, forgive each other, and laugh it off in the end. Bill and Tom never got to experience that those people who were hating on them at school, would eventually grow up.Maybe thats another reason why they find it so hard to believe when people like them/have self confidence issues. I feel they have them, based on meet & greets.
I thought about this topic the whole day.Bill just is not satisfied with himself, it seems.Looks like tries to compensate all the hurt from childhood with making himself constantly looking better than before.But that won't fix him.I think he might feel that he is not good enough and at the same time nobody is good enough for him aswell.So he waits for the day when he becomes more perfect.

I think when we look Bill/Tom we see what we would like to have.They have this unconditional love/understanding and opportunity to always be there for each other, which "normal" humans don't have.They are intresting because of it.Thats why many girls like them(or boys), cause it is easy to believe that for example Bill would be the same with "You" as he is with Tom.That only subconsiously, with common sense we know that aint true.

And about emos and emo music.I kind of agree TH is a bit emo.Cause there are a lot of sad songs..And i enjoy the sadness frome them.Sadness is inspirational.TH is shockingly honest and thats why people hate it, cause they are afraid to admit they have it in them too.Trying to label themselves as "grown ups" and not teenies..whateva..we all know how will the surpression of emotions end.

i know i came up with more random stuff while working, but i can't remember anything sadly.

Nats

May 15th, 2010, 04:29 PM

Yes, sadness is inspiritional, raw, powerful, and has the power to shift mountains. I remember before Evanescence came out, I was into dance music, and pop-py stuff. Cheerful things, and things I danced to in ballet class. When Ev came out, I was about 13. For being a relatively average girl, I absorbed the music like a sponge. The lyrics, dark and full of hurt, didn't scare me. I related, somehow, it changed the way I view things. Music, and personal experience. I scared my family, they didn't recognize the 16 year old girl with spikey bracelets and chokers and black eyeshadow/liner all over her eyes, writing moody depressed lyrics all over the place. My sadness about things gave me power. It made me write my own (crap) lyrics, it made me draw, even if it was hearts ripped apart and other gory things. It made me stronger, it was a companion. Sadness accompanied me everywhere. I think sadness is more powerful than joy or happiness. I think hurt can breed determination, passion, love. Strange to think so, but when you look at scenarios, where someone loses their loved one, their sadness and grief inside can make them journey to h*ll and back for their love. I have never known joy to do that. I think it's some deeply ingrained human trait, when they feel sadness, that they go to any lengths to repair that. Even if that somehow means wallowing in it. People who succumb to alchohol are dealing with sadness in their own way, by numbing it out.

Anyway, on to other things.

I'll bet you anything that you can never reach Tom in that level. But I feel, the right girl, who will understand him and would never hurt him purposely, will be on a separate level of equal importance. Why does a girlfriend have to try and replace Tom? It's like saying, "you can't be my best friend cause you'll never reach the position of my mother." No matter how tight your bond with your mum is, it's just not the same as a best friend, right? You don't have to have pedestals with NUMBER 1, NUMBER 2, etc. You have different pedestals for different people. It bugs me when people are like "She'll always be second and never as important". I think she will be just as important. In fact, perhaps more. If, God forbid, somehow she got hurt (emotionally) and left, Bill will be heartbroken and alone again. He's a dear boy, but he's human and he may do or say something to hurt her. Not intentionally. But things happen. Tom will ALWAYS be by his side, Bill has no reason to fear that. But his girl? The girl he'll love with all his heart, his soul? The girl he can be himself with? Such a special bond he'll share with her, he can lose in a heartbeat.

That's what I think on that matter, even though it wasn't the relevant topic. :laugh: I have a bad habit of letting my thought flow too freely. Which is why I sucked at essays. :laugh:

musicinmysoul

May 15th, 2010, 04:30 PM

I think that when Bill first started wearing makeup he just wanted to do so. Now it´s because (not only) be knows it makes people talk, and I think it and the way he dress is a little "say what you want I don´t care", but I do think that sometimes he does care. And it´s kind of his I don´t know.. shield. When he is wearing the clothes and the makeup he is confident.I don´t remember when, but he did say that he doesn´t like being without makeup.
But he doesn´t want to be lke everyone else, and he is doing a good job doing it.
When I was at a fair today I had "rock bracelets" and a fake leather jacket in bronze. And you know what? I thought that I don´t care what people think, and it actually amde me feel just a little more confident.
Maybe, just mabe, and thi is just me spekulating, Bill started dressing different when he was younger cause he didn´t want to look like everyone else, he wanted people to talk. They have said somethng like that. And now, when he has done it for so many years, he is confident looking like the Bill we know, but if he would look like a regular guy, like everyone else, maybe he thinks we wouldn´t like him as much? Again that if we would like the "real" Bill.

And no, not everyone gets bullied. It´s not a part of school even if it is to a lot of people. It´s not a part of growing up. I don´t believe that I was bullied (and not my friends) for what reason and felt different for almost 20 years cause it´s part of growing up.

ray_ray2384

May 16th, 2010, 12:09 AM

I love essays. Well written ones, anyway. ;)

I'll join the Kat/Ray group. If it wasn't for my English skills, I'd have been well and truly invisible. I need to lose weight too. I need to be more touchy and confident. I do believe the same, that if I shed all the "bad" stuff on me then maybe people would approach me. But I always look at others with suspicion.

The makeup thing. He started young, when he was nine, I think? Do you think at that age, he felt that disguise and vanity that makeup gives? Us women know that a simple sweep of mascara or lipgloss can make you instantly feel prettier. It's mind over matter, really. He was so young, can you imagine him then going "hey I like myself like this!" and did it? Or do you think he realised the hoopla he caused when he wore it? He caused uproar wherever he went and he fought it, like a little rebellious punk you see in movies. Maybe that eyeliner gave him that little punch, that punky rebel attitude to argue and go against the norm? A warrior won't feel confident enough to fight if he doesn't have a sword. When he gets one, he can feel that courage surge in him. Maybe makeup is Bill's sword? His BRING IT ON, PUNK! character, his rebel persona. I mean, he's such a sweetheart inside, you don't need eyes to see that. Yet he's the same guy who upturned Loitsche and Magdeburg? It's like Bill doesn't want to seem weak. Maybe it's not so much the beauty, maybe it's the confidence.

you make a good point. I don't think he wants to appear weak at all. For a long time Bill always said that he did his own make-up, his own styling. yet, it was obvious he had a make-up artist who actually did most of the work. Why claim to be solely responsible when you do have someone who helps you? It's just recently that Bill actually admitted to having help with his make-up. But, he makes sure we know that he is fully capable of doing his own make up. I guess he didn't want to appear dependent on anyone.

I remember Bill saying in an interview that when kids at school would make fun of his make up. He'd go back the next day with even more eyeliner on his eyes. I do think Bill started wearing make up because he just felt like it. But, he quickly learned how his actions displeased so many people. Perhaps, all of the attention he received gave him more fuel to keep doing what he wanted. Maybe it gave him a sense of power. He knew that what he did would cause a reaction, make people pay attention to him, even if it was negative reactions. W/o the make up....can Bill be as powerful as he is with the make up? Can he attract so much attention, confuse so many people if he looked like a typical guy?

I agree with musicinmysoul, not every person was a victim of bullying. There are many people who enjoyed a fun, nearly drama-free childhood. I was made fun of for most of my childhood and during my teenage years. In fact, I think i'm "friends" with some of my bullies on Facebook! :laugh: Have they apologized? Are we the best of friends now? No. But...I decided a long time ago to let the past stay in the past and just move on with my life. Memories from that time period still surface. But, I am able to ignore them and continue being the best I know I can be.

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 09:01 AM

Yep. I think that's what it is. Not so much feeling beautiful physically or on the inside, but just having that confidence. I only thought about it last night (or should I say, early this morning :laugh: ) when I thought how his attitude supposedly is. You know, the "I don't take orders from anyone" kinda nonsense. To be honest, I think it's partly habit and partly a way for him to seem stronger than his peer. He wants people to think he's got the upper hand. Maybe when his parents divorced, and with all the bullying, he felt like he'd lost control.

I think that whole "I don't take orders from anyone" is a bit extreme and immature. It's something a teenager would say to his parents. And Bill has said before he thinks it's really bad to not be self dependant. And he hates advice, yada yada. But c'mon, there are lots of people who are stubborn and dependant of themselves, yet they know when to listen and when to be "diplomatic", for lack of a better word. When you are so set in your ways and opinions you create a wall around others, and eventually nobody cares to bother anymore with you. You alienate people.
He's never learned to listen to anyone but himself (so to speak). It takes just as much power in a person to listen and trust someone else's judgement. And nobody said follow it blindly. I think that trait in his personality, has been grossly overblown. I mean, there are plenty of members here with that stubbornness and indendant nature, yet I hardly think we're that bad.

Nereida

May 16th, 2010, 09:50 AM

I'll bet you anything that you can never reach Tom in that level. But I feel, the right girl, who will understand him and would never hurt him purposely, will be on a separate level of equal importance. Why does a girlfriend have to try and replace Tom? It's like saying, "you can't be my best friend cause you'll never reach the position of my mother." No matter how tight your bond with your mum is, it's just not the same as a best friend, right? You don't have to have pedestals with NUMBER 1, NUMBER 2, etc. You have different pedestals for different people. It bugs me when people are like "She'll always be second and never as important". I think she will be just as important. In fact, perhaps more.
Thats true.I think i said something that is in opposition to your post.But sometimes i feel like i have many opinions about a thing, they alll contradict themselves, but yet i agree with all of them.

And with the make up thing..i know i started with it while being very young, and it was fun and intresting, but now, its a must.I won't go anywhere without make up.Never.Bill knows we actually like his make up, look all the drama when he didn't colour his lower eyelid :D seriously i hope he never sees the comments..lol

Amdee

May 16th, 2010, 09:51 AM

Okay, I try to collect some of my thoughts here... Random, but something.

Quick note of sdadness. For me personally depression, angst, sadness and melancholy have always been the most inspiring powers. I've very rarely written anything completely happy or joyful, but in everything I create there is at least a hint of pain in it. I can't create without it! It's very powerful force and should be never underestimated.

As many of you probably know, I was bullied quite badly at school. Sure, most of the people get sometimes few little comments (not all, never), but as in my case it was quite severe and it followed me from one school to another in one way or another until I turned twenty and after that I've not experienced things like that. I still carry those scars. Maybe I'm weak, I don't know, but they affect on me still, even after all these years. Scientific studies show that very often traumatizing experiences like bullying start to show lot of symphtoms at the early adulthood. So that's my background.

Based on my own experiences and observation, I wouldn't be surprised if the fragileness in Bill, the broken inner is true. I know there are very strong people, but everytime when someone says they don't care what anyone thinks and they are so overly confident, alarm starts to ring inside me. I think it's against the basic human nature to not care of anything. I believe we all care about something. Bill's extreme ways to express himself can be either his strong individualism or coping skill. I think it's both. I think he is more fragile than he shows, because he can't afford to show the other option.

I also believe that makeup is kind of a shield for him. I believe it makes him think he is beautiful, but it's also the key to his confidence. It's kind of exaggerated irratating. He knows his way to express irritates people, so he takes it to extremes so he has a reason for them to hate him. There was something separating him from "them", some reason to hate, something almost visible to catch. Could have he felt that if he'd be just Bill, nothing special in him, the hatred would hurt him deeper? Could they hate HIM instead of how he looked?

I think his makeup was and is partly his shield, his fortress, his wall, his protector, savior and alienator. In good and in bad. It's not a role, but it's kind of a harness. He is attacking, because he is afraid to surrender and he sees that maybe as his only option. As former bullied I know that most important thing you can do is not to show you care, not to show any weaknesses. I see some of that in that polished picture of Bill Kaulitz. I think he says that he feels more of himself when makeup on, because it gives him that image of untouchable, powerful, strong, flawless Bill Kaulitz. Without it he is vulnerable, ordinary, fragile and I think he is very afraid to show that to the outside world. He can be afraid of seeing it even himself?

I still believe that the way Bill and Tom have grown up, is nothing but ordinary and it just can't be not affecting on their personas and psychological development. It has to leave marks and do little pushes toward certain directions. I don't think it's normal and good for humans to live and find their identify in the middle of outrageous hate and admiring love. I think it twists and turns, when you lack of neutral interactiuon with people. Just like we learn by reflecting other people's reactions on our behavior, they didn't really had that change. All reflections were twisted somehow. Only possible normal reflections came from their old friends and family and I think it means the world to them. I don't blame them for not trusting even if I wish they could open up more. When you are target of constant hate, how can you find the courage to risk yourself by trusting? It's in human nature to protect themselves and I think it's exactly what they do right now.

It's just that their little, constantly tightening bubble won't last forever and as it alienates, it will burst and leave them uncovered and raw or squeeze them into a narrow, neurotic humanruin. I wish it would be the first option if it has to be something. There is really no other option than at one point start to trust and open their vulnerability.

Nereida

May 16th, 2010, 10:42 AM

Could have he felt that if he'd be just Bill, nothing special in him, the hatred would hurt him deeper? Could they hate HIM instead of how he looked?

this feels like....you hit the jackpot with this one

musicinmysoul

May 16th, 2010, 12:42 PM

I also believe that makeup is kind of a shield for him. I believe it makes him think he is beautiful, but it's also the key to his confidence. It's kind of exaggerated irratating. He knows his way to express irritates people, so he takes it to extremes so he has a reason for them to hate him. There was something separating him from "them", some reason to hate, something almost visible to catch. Could have he felt that if he'd be just Bill, nothing special in him, the hatred would hurt him deeper? Could they hate HIM instead of how he looked?

I think his makeup was and is partly his shield, his fortress, his wall, his protector, savior and alienator. In good and in bad. It's not a role, but it's kind of a harness. He is attacking, because he is afraid to surrender and he sees that maybe as his only option. As former bullied I know that most important thing you can do is not to show you care, not to show any weaknesses. I see some of that in that polished picture of Bill Kaulitz. I think he says that he feels more of himself when makeup on, because it gives him that image of untouchable, powerful, strong, flawless Bill Kaulitz. Without it he is vulnerable, ordinary, fragile and I think he is very afraid to show that to the outside world. He can be afraid of seeing it even himself?

As always you write so well
And I never would have thought you were bullied when I met you. To me you are just a really nice, funny girl that I enjoyed very much to spend time with.

And I´m probably going to repeat myself, so I´m not sure why I even write something, cause I´ve already kind of said it.

I have never analyzed people the way I analyze Bill and Tom, but the more I do, I see so much more than I did before. I obviously don`t know any of them, but if Bill is anything like I imagine him, I see some of me in him, and maybe that´s why I like him so much.... Or maybe it´s just the fact that I can relate to them, and of course a bunch of other things.

And the more I think of it, I do think that the hair and makeup and clothes can be a way for him to be confident, and kind of hide behind it. I have said already, I do not think everything people say can run off you. Sooner or later it gets to you. And I don´t think all the bad things that Bill hear, that he always can say "Psh, I don´t care anyway".

I think that when he first started wearing makeup it was just for fun. Then he saw how it affected people and how it made them react. He have said he wanted people to talk, and that is a good way to do so. All this became a part of him, where he could be confident, say that he doesn´t care what people say. And maybe he doesn´t. When he is the Bill we see. The one with the clothes, the hair and the makeup. With that, he can be who he wants to be. If he would look like everyone else, what´s special about him? If he looks like this, yes people will of course talk, he asks for it, but if he looked like everyone else and people would say bad things about him I think it would be easier for him to let it affect him. Why say all these bad things about him when there is nothing special about him. You know?

I know that if I would be able to live one of my dreams, like being a singer, I would dress differently, and I would, at least on stage, probably seem more confident. Cause I can be who I want to be.

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 12:57 PM

I went for a nice shower and came back with pleasing posts. :grin:

Nereida, I didn't quite mean to contradict your post, I had originally started (in my mind) about his value of Tom. Then it kinda spiralled into the girl thing. :laugh:

Amdee I agree. I was not bullied to your extent, in fact I didn't really have severe physical bullying, or indeed mental bullying, but it WAS there and it did affect me. I also have bullied myself at times, I am my harshest critic. And also when you first learn of the pain that love can bring, or the betrayal and hurt, I believe it leaves a mark somewhere. Maybe the little things heal over, but the bigger ones don't. And it's natural for them to twinge every so often.

I also think that, many children have suffered worse than the Kaulitz twins. I'm being realistic here. But they got the disruption of divorce, the bullying, the school, and straight after that, fame reared its ugly head. They had no chance to heal or develop from the trauma of those past experiences, and the band's success just worsened everything tenfold. They had no way to process it all and turn bad things into strength. Instead they just hardened that shell, made it pleasing to the fan and media eye, made it shiny and pretty and sparkly, while inside that pristine armor lies a very sensitive soul.

I think we all, all of us, have that. I myself, must be a strong person to live through what I have (to say that 'my life is worse than yours' is silly), but I still remain the little girl hiding behind her mother's skirt and sitting on my sister's lap hugging her. I may have a melancholy view of life, but I'm still the cheerful talkative silly person that did silly things with my family and friends. I may sometimes be selfish and arrogant, but I still care for my loved ones and I often turn into a doormat for them. I complain of love and am cynical of it, yet I'm the biggest softie around.

We all have defensive fronts. We all have shells. My shell is a "don't come near me" sign and constant emo complaining and sharp cynicism. Some people have other ways of expressing that. I think the boys have fronted the most dangerous shell; the "perfect" one, where you kinda blink cause you're blinded in its light. You're breathless when you gaze at them, you marvel at their beauty. You give kudos for their cute personalities and maturity.

But crack that shell, and it's like boiled crab. Soft and tender.

I gotta say I just loved that comparison. :laugh:

Nereida

May 16th, 2010, 01:03 PM

I have never analyzed people the way I analyze Bill and Tom, but the more I do, I see so much more than I did before. I obviously don`t know any of them, but if Bill is anything like I imagine him, I see some of me in him, and maybe that´s why I like him so much.... Or maybe it´s just the fact that I can relate to them, and of course a bunch of other things.

I realised that aswell.i like Bill cause i see myself when i look at him(okay definently not the looks part sadly though,lol), but u know.When i love smth about him, its cause i feel i have the same qualities.When i see him hurt, its because i am going through the same things.When i feel like he needs to be rescued, its actually cause it is me who needs to be saved. So basically i am very into myself...ahaha.I was afraid to tell this before, cause it felt too ego..

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 01:16 PM

musicinmysoul

May 16th, 2010, 01:18 PM

I realised that aswell.i like Bill cause i see myself when i look at him(okay definently not the looks part sadly though,lol), but u know.When i love smth about him, its cause i feel i have the same qualities.When i see him hurt, its because i am going through the same things.When i feel like he needs to be rescued, its actually cause it is me who needs to be saved. So basically i am very into myself...ahaha.I was afraid to tell this before, cause it felt too ego..

Or you can rescue each other?

I think that when I allow myself to be all teenager and fangirling, and think of Bill like I wish I could be with him (did I say that out loud?) I think part of it is that I see some of me in him, and I can relate. I wasn´t as bullied as they were, but I was bullied. And I want to be that special to someone. I think he is a very special person, and I think that the girl he choose to be with, he would make feel very special.

And Nats. I have that "Don`t come close" sign too. Especially when it comes to guys.

HugsNotDrugs

May 16th, 2010, 01:19 PM

I've always thought Bill is the more fame driven one..He loves attention you can tell. He strikes me as the kid that always got bragged on and petted and babied when he was younger and got away with murder while Tom was probably the tougher, stronger one and more likely to suck it up and get on with it rather than cry or whine about something, lol. I think when the boys have described Bill in interviews as "Egoistic" and "self centered" they are probably right.

Bill seems like he could be a diva and that he wants things his way or else. Tom seems more laid back like he doesn't care. I also think fame has affected Bill moreso than the others..Gustav and Georg seem the same as always (although I have noticed they both talk a little more now) and the G's truly seem like they are in it for the passion of performing and they seem like normal people..down to earth and not all fancy. Tom seems the same way as the G's but Bill seems more fancy to me and like he wants all the money and fame and glitter...and I don't mean that he is a money or fame ***** necessarily either.

Bill does seem cold to me..specially recently. I think their new CD and the fame that went with it has changed them a lot...they are not the same in interviews and don't do as much fan interaction such as THTV or anything. So yeah, fame has changed some things for them for sure.

musicinmysoul

May 16th, 2010, 01:23 PM

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 01:27 PM

Thing is, why do we see ourselves in just Bill? I'm sure there are tons of people that will have similar experiences, and who would treat you right. To say all guys are pigs and worthless, while I sometimes agree :laugh: , is just an excuse. I do see myself in Bill, I admit, but I also see some of myself in my buddy, and in the guy I crushed on a while ago, the metalhead. When we talk we often agree on things, it's like a mutual understanding.

So why do we focus so much on Bill? I think, partly, it's because we are so exposed to him. We already know alot of his personality, and sad as it is, this kind of dreaming and fantasizing is safe. But to meet and know a stranger or friend, to struggle to get closer to him, to risk, to do what so many people do; find love. That process scares the **** out of me. At times, I'd rather just imagine a pretty life with Bill rather than go out and fight for a real love. But I don't want to waste my life dreaming. And whoever said that dreams come true, is either the script writer for Cinderella or the most mental person ever.

I'm not judging btw, I'm speculating.

ray_ray2384

May 16th, 2010, 01:32 PM

I think lots of us can relate to Bill. :geek1: In the end, if you narrow it down, he's just as normal as us, caught in an abnormal world. He just wants love, like all of us, like me. He's being judged for who he is and is fighting against it, just like we are. He's trying to find himself and live with it, as we all do.

He's really not that extraordinary if you think about it.

I can relate to the twins because, like me, they were bullied simply because they were different. They were an easy target. and it's still the same today. In fact, I believe the twins went through all that turmoil as children so that they could be prepared for what they had to face as successful musicians. People continue to make fun of them, even their country doesn't seem to respect them. But, I believe the boys have grown stronger throughout the years. Had they not experienced earlier bullying....maybe all of the negative attention they rec'd as a result of fame would have affected them in the worst way.

We focus on Bill so much because he gives so much of himself to us. I can say much about Georg and Gustav. When it comes to the twins....I can talk about them for hours. They've given me enough material to write a thesis.

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 01:34 PM

Oh I definitely think they've become stronger, otherwise I dont' think they'd manage to continue. But still... it hurts. Even if a person wishes that they'd leave him alone, if they did, he'd regret that because being ignored is the worst. Being invisible to someone else is just awful.

musicinmysoul

May 16th, 2010, 01:36 PM

It´s always safe to fantasize and dream, even if it´s about the guy in the parallel class.

I have good friends, but I don´t have really close friends. That would be my sister, but even if we are very close and we talk about most things, I don´t even tell her everything. And so I do see me in my friends, but at the same time we are quite different.

And maybe we do focus so much on Bill because we are so exposed to him, and because he is so different from many others.

But I think I can see myself with Tom too. I think being with him, he would make me open up a little more, and maybe his confidens would rub off just a little bit on me.
I was in love with this guy that is funny, charming, flirting. While I knew him, we used to work together and had a kind of friend relationship, he made me open up a little bit.

ray_ray2384

May 16th, 2010, 01:37 PM

it will always hurt. But, I'd like to challenge anyone to take the place of Bill and Tom and live a day in their shoes. Be the constant subject of mean jokes over and over again... Have complete strangers hate you because they don't like the way you look. I think very few would actually volunteer.

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 01:40 PM

Hmmm.. let me see, what I see in the boys that is me. I just thought of this now.

In Bill, I see the romantic loving person. And the melancholy soul, the sensitivity. And his beliefs.

In Tom, I see his laid back-ness. I see myself in Tom the least, though.

In Georg I see the teasing funny clumsy person. The kind that jokes about.

In Gustav I see the sweet person who hides under a shy quiet persona.

I guess that's it, really. -shrugs-

Ray, nobody would volunteer. Anyone who isn't willing to go through that, anyway. They are doing a good job, though, so far.

musicinmysoul

May 16th, 2010, 01:42 PM

Sure, I love to sing, and I want to be a singer. But to actually be in their shoes, I don´t think I could do that. I think it might actually break me.
Being bullied in a way made me a little stronger, but living the life they live, being talked about all the time, and most of the time in a bad way, all the mean jokes, people hating me just because. I don´t think I would make it.

Amdee

May 16th, 2010, 01:43 PM

As much as I hate to admit it, but if I (we) want to be honest, it's more or less like Nats said. We observe them safely from a distance. We can dream and hope to maybe someday have that 10 word conversation or even more, but the fact is that we don't need to risk anything by this. We can partly live in a fantasyland, where we dpon't need to face the truth, to actually DO anything about it. Bill has said that he doesn't like to go to bars, because he feels like being an animal in a zoo. Well, whether we wanted or not, I think we all do the same with them in some scale. As much as we truly appriciate them as humanbeings, try to treat them like any other person, this position - this balance between unreachable celebrity and a fan - forces us to a role of observant and a dreamer. We dig them deep, they can never reach us. I think it's inevitable result of this shift in balance. So as long as we are not as a same level with them, as friends or family, we are in our role, but they are captivated on theirs too. They can't escape their zoo. It will be there as long as the spotlight lights on them and even after that. It's not just in bars, but it's everywhere. When Bill lives that spotlight, he also chooses to live in a zoo. He can't have both. It's a tragedy of life. He makes also the choise for us, because as long as we are fans and he is a star, we will never be equal and we will always be voyeurists and they'll be exhibionists.

I must say that I'm different than you and I find more of myself on Tom. I can't really explain it, but I have a quite (too?) strong image of him in my head and it's hard for me to get rid of that image. It's also probably very different than most people have. Because of that, I find him always more attracrtive, more... easy to understand, more... worth of protecting. I can't really explain it well, but I liked the Nereida's comment of saving them is actually saving us. I guess it's partly so. In any case, he answers in certain needs in me more than Bill and because of that, no matter how things turn, I'll always stick on a dark side. Not in a fan girling way, but in a way that my needs find their answer in him.

I can't explain! Frustrating! :laugh:

Edit.
I would never ever in my life would want to step in their shoes. I couldn't take it a week.

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 01:51 PM

Nah Amdee I know what you mean. I think after all these nights of posting we've all developed a common wavelength. :laugh:

Yep, exactly. Unless one of us manages to really shift his world, we'll always be like the people gazing at Bill in the zoo. Like when we look at the penguin pen and wish we had a pet penguin, we know it's impossible, it'd be hard work, etc, but we still have fun imagining it. Same with Bill and love. I'm a natural dreamer, I've made up worlds of my own and characters based off me, but I don't want to dream of Bill. I sometimes do, when I'm really down in the dumps with guys in my college, and I imagine what I could be like in a relationship. Happy, fullfilled, content. Because, and I hate to admit it, with his talk and appearance and personality, I find it all so appealing. I find it like something I've been missing all these years. The rocker guy with a soft kind heart. Because all I come across is immaturity and lack of interest.

Bill's words have kinda gotten a hold of me. But if I like someone, and I have, as I've mentioned before, I don't think of Bill at all. I don't compare, or think what he would have done. I focus completely on that person. I see me and him. So I think in a way, my daydreaming is just sticking my head in the sand and avoiding facing my problems and handling people.

-feels odd for that speech-

musicinmysoul

May 16th, 2010, 01:53 PM

You know Hannele, now that I know more about Tom, thinking about him, analyzing him, looking deeper.... I can see a little of me in him, but still more of me in Bill. But Tom is not the person I thought he was when I started listening to TH, and I think that is why I like him so much now.

I will probably never meet them, and even if I did, I wouldn´t have the chance to get to know them, just a little. But it would be fun to see if they are anything like I imagine them. In a way I think they are, but I will never be sure.

Nereida

May 16th, 2010, 01:54 PM

Or you can rescue each other?

I think that when I allow myself to be all teenager and fangirling, and think of Bill like I wish I could be with him (did I say that out loud?)

Objectively...i think similar people don't match too well.Even though i like him so much, it was his fun and childish side which i was attracted to first, but now i know his a bit more emo..He needs somebody strong and funny by his side...

But Nats you have got a point, why won't we like ordinary guys?
I guess for me the combination of Bill and Tom is the idea of a perfect man.I know a guy who looks so good, even better than the twins, and i don't have anything in common with him.But i want it all kind of...Somebody who is taller than me, is talented, is vegetarian, is funny, has a brain,is about the same age, is intresting and inspires me.I have a list made up in my mind, and i discovered they match it..Seriously, i am sorry this sounds so bad, i need to lower my standards

I am not sure if i am only into Bill though.When i think of him i feel the fake love.When i think of Tom, its other things.lol ..Thats so wrong.

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 02:00 PM

Nah I have a "list" too. When it comes to looks, I like taller guys (not a problem :laugh: ), usually a rock/metal/goth style and music, long or extreme hair... tats and piercings are a plus. For character, someone I can chat and have fun with, do silly things like dance in the kitchen or watch a movie together, but at the same time will respect me and love me and understand me.

I ask for too much, I know. :laugh: But that is how I imagine my mr perfect. I've met guys who don't come near that, and yet I've been attracted to them.

I mean, I can go to a rock or goth club and tick the style factor immediately. But in personality those guys are usually immature. And I find the personality more important anyway. And I want someone who is as mature as me. In the things that matter.

I think in the end I want someone who is on my wavelength.

musicinmysoul

May 16th, 2010, 02:01 PM

I´m not saying I don´t like ordinary guys. I just want someone who is romantic, who I can talk to about everything, to be both my boyfriend and a best friend, love me for me..... I probably need to lower my standards too...

Amdee

May 16th, 2010, 02:03 PM

EDIT: This is for Nats: Oh don't feel! I know what you mean. For me, Tokio Hotel is a fantasyland. It's an escape route, which I need so badly. I've always been like this. When I find things hard to deal with and I need a break, I need a fantasyland to escape it. Tokio Hotel is kind of that land for me right now. I think it's important to understand your own motives and limitations, but as long as you do so, then I don't think it cause you harm. Especially when I'm down, I'll use the method. It eases my anxiety and lets me rest in the middle of depression. It's my method instead of pills to survive: cabability to create escape routes/worlds. I use it intentionally and methodically. Maybe it's weird for some, but I rather take this than non-stop anxiety or pills. Escapism rules! :laugh:

(and I'm aware that by saying this, I will come out as weirdo to some people)

oh yes, I forgot... I find you funny, kind and sweet person, musicinmysoul, so I thank you for your compliment earlier :)

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 02:06 PM

We should all make a resolution then. :laugh:

Thing is, my kind of romantic is different from the classic idea of romantic. I think roses are pretty, and who says no to chocolate, but that's so cliche it means nothing to me. And candlelit dinner would make me feel awkward.

To me, romantic is like... buying the CD of the band you know she's crazy for. Or, watching a movie together you both love, and sit and quote things. Or cook spontaneously together, and usually end up making a horrible meal. :laugh: Or seeing something and think THAT'S SO HER... stuff like that.

I think for me personally, the most important is that I feel the guy pays attention to me. Not makes me feel like a princess. But knows my little habits, my quirks, my thinking face, what I like... pays attention to me. And loves me for it. That to me is the ultimate romantic gesture.

Amdee I'm glad you understand me. :grin: Yes TH is a nice escape route for me, which is probably why I value them so much. I know why I do it, and I know that it can't go on forever, but I am nowhere close to CFFing over them. If I met them, I'd keep my cool, maybe be my usual awkward-in-a-shy-and-cute way behavior, but I've analyzed them so much, thought about them so much in this sense, that the glamour and glitter has faded for me. Which thankfully means I'm still healthy in the head. :laugh:

Nereida

May 16th, 2010, 02:17 PM

I have been there before.Celebrity obsession.You feel like you have everything in common.Even if you don't.This time again..i am feeling it.lol.

I have been a fan such short time, i hope this CFF period goes away and i can be just an admirer of their talent. I have searched for psychology books about celebrity obsessions, but i didn't find any.
I feel like the only thing which would help me is to be rejected.I wan't to meet them so i would realise there are no feelings, from them towards me.Or possibly even the opposite way.Usually when i like a guy, i run away, cause i don't want to know the truth.
To get their rejection, i need A) to be on the first rows at a TH conceert,B) cold attitude from them at a M&G C) if they get some girlfriends, that counts as one aswell... is this likely to happen-not any time soon..
If i met them, i would be so guilty of everything i have said about them and i would probably tell them the truth cause i just can't lie.Meeting or seeing them will be awkward.They are so big part of my life, and for them its just like, another fan.(not complaining)*waits for her brain to miraculously develope itself* lol

musicinmysoul

May 16th, 2010, 02:18 PM

Amdee I'm glad you understand me. :grin: Yes TH is a nice escape route for me, which is probably why I value them so much. I know why I do it, and I know that it can't go on forever, but I am nowhere close to CFFing over them. If I met them, I'd keep my cool, maybe be my usual awkward-in-a-shy-and-cute way behavior, but I've analyzed them so much, thought about them so much in this sense, that the glamour and glitter has faded for me. Which thankfully means I'm still healthy in the head. :laugh:

I aslo find it a nice escape.

When it comes to dreaming, that`s what I do best. In my dreams I can do anything, be anything, meet anyone I like... You get the picture.

If I met them, I would also keep my cool, I have met artists that I like, and never acted crazy or even close to it. It´s just people! :)
And if I would freak out a little bit, I would afterwards, when no one can see me :)

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 02:20 PM

We all go through that in the beginning of the journey. Even though when I started, I was a bit preoccupied with someone else, so I never really had room for Bill in my mind. But still.

The wonder and *_* kind of reaction wears off after a while.

ray_ray2384

May 16th, 2010, 02:20 PM

Objectively...i think similar people don't match too well.Even though i like him so much, it was his fun and childish side which i was attracted to first, but now i know his a bit more emo..He needs somebody strong and funny by his side...

But Nats you have got a point, why won't we like ordinary guys?
I guess for me the combination of Bill and Tom is the idea of a perfect man.I know a guy who looks so good, even better than the twins, and i don't have anything in common with him.But i want it all kind of...Somebody who is taller than me, is talented, is vegetarian, is funny, has a brain,is about the same age, is intresting and inspires me.I have a list made up in my mind, and i discovered they match it..Seriously, i am sorry this sounds so bad, i need to lower my standards

I am not sure if i am only into Bill though.When i think of him i feel the fake love.When i think of Tom, its other things.lol ..Thats so wrong.

my fondness for the guys of Tokio Hotel haven't stopped me from liking the regular guys I see every day. I mean, some days...I'll see a really beautiful man and think he's the most attractive person i've ever seen... As much as I praise Bill/Tom's beauty, I still see the beauty in other men. Do I think any of the TH guys are the perfect guy for me? No way. I do think they all have many qualities I find attractive. But....that's about it. well, that's all i'm willing to share here! :lol:

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 02:28 PM

I can imagine if I met Bill, say. On the outside I'd be normal and chatty but on the inside....

*OMGOMGOMG I'm talking to Bill Kaulitz here... :shock1: wow I can't belie- hey he looks real good, and dayum he's tall- and he's prettyyyy :cffgrin:- he's talking to you, look at him in the eyes, look at him.in.the.eyes- oh dear he smiled at me, chill! deep breaths, he's just a normal gu- he nodded, what had I said? I don't remember. God why is he so tall -___- and his jeans are so tight, wait! don't look there! O_O Eyes up, eyes up! Nice tshirt, hmmmm, and necklaces, wait omg he laughed, what did I do? ZOMG I'M FREAKING OUT HERE*

:laugh:

Amdee

May 16th, 2010, 02:37 PM

I think this is very interesting AND very fragile topic to discuss and I really appriciate every one of you for sharing so intimate experiences here. We can discuss all day if Tom's left egg was cool effect or not or debate on Bill's hair, but when it comes to personal experiences with the band, it's a whole other thing.

Maybe it's because for some odd reason Tokio HOtel comes very close to you. I've been a fan of many bands during the years and I still am. Still I've never felt to emotionally attached to any band or celebrity before. I don't see it as celebrity crush "oh, I'll marry him!", but more like being personally involved in this huge circus called Tokio Hotel. And I know I'm not the only one. There is only one question left: what it is in this band, in these four guys, that people from different cultures, countries, age group experienmce the same strong connection? That people actually put their personal emotions into a game behalf of them. And do the boys honestly understand how MUCH they have because of that? How unique they are?

I admit, I don't know so much of fandoms from bands like JoBro etc. maybe they are the same. But for me this experience is very unique and it shows not only devotion, but also the vulnerability of myself. Like Ray asked, if they've changed me, I's still answer no, but at the same time they have a huge power over me based on that affection... kind of affection. But that is also a problem, because in TH fandom affection and strong emotions are not only blessing, but also a curse. Have you ever noticed that you intentionally control yourself, your emotions or reactions, because it's dangerous from fandom's social acceptance's point of view? It's balancing of how is appropriate to feel...

One thing is worldwide incommon: they hit you and you are gone. I've met very few people who just happen to like them a little. Once you fall for the band, it's really powerful experience for the most of the fans, very emotionally loaded. Why is it so? Just like my friend, who was with me at Helsinki concertm said afterwards: she is the same age as I am, so not a girl anymore. We've been discussing of TH earlier already and I kind of find few same feelings I had, but after the concert she said how his husband said to her half-joking how she became addicted to the band. Why things like these happen to people even at this age? It's really a mystery to me.

Nereida

May 16th, 2010, 02:40 PM

my fondness for the guys of Tokio Hotel haven't stopped me from liking the regular guys I see every day. I mean, some days...I'll see a really beautiful man and think he's the most attractive person i've ever seen... As much as I praise Bill/Tom's beauty, I still see the beauty in other men. Do I think any of the TH guys are the perfect guy for me? No way. I do think they all have many qualities I find attractive. But....that's about it. well, that's all i'm willing to share here! :lol:

I was bit*hy about men before Tom and Bill.There is only one guy in this country i have liked.And only based on his looks, presence.So i think i am kind of shallow with him..Tom and Bill, i didn't think anything about their looks, they were like aliens..its the interviews and some similar views that still make me think about unrealistic things.Its good i am already admitting the problem, its half of the victory.Anybody wanna make a club for "i don't wanna be obsessed with the Twins!" ?lol:laugh:
Meeting them..u know i have already planned what make up i am gonna wear..lmao:eyeroll: i would just be jelouse, there will be some fans who are gonna get more attention from them, and it will make me ******.

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 02:57 PM

Amdee yessssss. You control how you really feel and what you see to seem normal to others. And I have done so, until I posted what I did just a while ago. It's like, there I said it. I imagine myself with Bill sometimes. OH SHOCK HORROR. Go ahead, throw stones at me. You know what I mean? But eh, I know why I do it, and I know it won't last forever. I admit I can be harsh to others about it but that's because I see myself in the fans and worry I end up the same. So far I have a balance of fantasy and reality. Posters on my wall are to decorate the bland white surface, not a shrine. It's a long list of things, but I trust you all enough to know you won't think differently of me. Which is why I "came out of the closet", as it were.

I really, for the love of me, cannot understand why they hold such power over fans. They are different; so are other bands. They are handsome; everyone in that business is. They are genuine; rare to find, but still not something to get so caught up in. I think maybe the thing is, what I said before. We see ourselves in them. I mean, anyone who likes FRIENDS or Big Bang Theory can relate. We all see a bit of Chandler or Monica in us, or have a bit of Sheldon's personality. We all know a Joey and Rachel, or a Lennard and Penny. Which is why we like it; if an average woman was given a choice of a magazine about space and NASA and a Cosmopolitan issue, it's an obvious answer. Why? Cause she doesn't relate to space and NASA. She'll read about sex tips or questions from women who have the same problem as her.

At least, that's the only reasonable answer I can give. Your thoughts, anyone?

ray_ray2384

May 16th, 2010, 03:04 PM

I believe Bill has such a strong hold on his fans because they see in him something they never thought was possible, something they've dreamed about and now they see it is possible to have, it is possible to be. Very often I've noticed fans speak of Bill as the guy they thought could never exist. For other fans, Bill represents a window of hope. He's a role model they look up to and he's used as an inspiration for many directions.

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 03:06 PM

Amdee

May 16th, 2010, 03:13 PM

Oh Nats, you don't have no idea about my darkest inner secrets related to the band. I feel embarrassed to even think about them... except not, because I know how my mind works and it works like this. Things come and go, the affect on me and my escapist self loves to run to the wonderlands. It's all good. The darkest secrets will be funny memories after a while.

Except it has lasted more than a year already and not a single sign of turning down... :???:

Anyways. I still think only thing that really matters is to understand the difference between fantasyworld and the real world. They are animals in a zoo, they are mirrors to our own reflections. To understand that the image in our head is not real is only thing that matters. And actually I find it quite liberating to let yourself float with the imagination. Understanding the difference - that's the key word. Imagine famous writers or moviemakers. They all do the same: create worlds in their heads and we celebrate them for doing so. Why is this any different after all?

I wish I could explain their attraction, but I can't. They have nothing than someone else don't have. Still they take you and you drift away and that personal affection, that never stop amazing me.

And hey, I would pick that NASA magazine... but I've always wanted to be an astronaut, so I guess it again goes with the relating thing :D

Nereida

May 16th, 2010, 03:15 PM

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 03:17 PM

I would choose a science magazine... then later the Cosmo. :laugh: I love my Science Illustrated. :grin:

I'd be so scared to be an astronaut, I'm scared of heights and being in a spaceship, watching earth from up there, is pretty much the definition of acrophobia. :laugh:

Oh I think we all have deep dark secrets. So do I. I just realise why and how, so I hope one day to laugh it off, like you said.

I want to be a writer so bad, I want my fantasy world to be read by people and I want them to enjoy it and relate, to feel caught up in it, like Tolkien's LOTR or Lewis' Narnia. :grin:

ray_ray2384

May 16th, 2010, 03:18 PM

He's also gorgeous, they see that too. They say he's a vision of perfection and stuff.

I say that in a joking manner but he's far from perfect. -scratches chin- Nor is he a window of hope. Bahahahaha :laugh:

for some fans he is. I remember when I first became a fan, I read stories of fans who said they didn't commit suicide because they heard one of TH's songs. Bill inspired them to live on and be strong.

Amdee

May 16th, 2010, 03:20 PM

I think the imperfection is a good point. In one way he is perfect for many people, but Bill is a swan and Tokio Hotel is a fairytale. Bill is an ugly duckling who grew up to be a swan and Tokio Hotel is a fairuytale where a group of more or less outcasts showed the world middlefinger. I think it appeals to people. Many people say that they feel like the band is so close to them, because nobody else understand and then comes these guys who "everyone" hate, but they are strong and they rise above those haters. Tokio Hotel presents possibility to be bigger than those who try to hurt you. Tokio Hotel is an emotional home to many people. I think it's part of the devotion and connection for many.

ray_ray2384

May 16th, 2010, 03:21 PM

Lets not forget the music.Its such a big part of why we like him.Is it wrong to love somebody for his talent?
I don't think that when people say he is perfect , they think about his looks and nice manners.I think the majority thinks he is perfect because he is imperfect.I don't know if it makes sense..He shows that in iterviews and lyrics i think..i like that he doesn't play a tough guy..

I think he's amazing because he is so talented. I believe Bill will be much bigger than he is now. I respect him as an artist and as a man who is very confident in himself and knows what he wants career-wise. The same goes for Tom, Georg and Gustav. They are all younger than me and have already experienced so much, are making their dreams come true.... At times, I feel as if I've wasted my life by not accomplishing some of the things I'd love to do.

Amdee: I think for some fans TH gives them a sense of purpose, a sense of belonging. I know you brought up this point before. TH is like home for many fans, an emotional investment in a way.

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 03:23 PM

That's powerful, but I think deep down it was more than Bill. Bill was a catalyst, a mere reason. I don't know about Bill, but to carry a responsibility of one's life like that, I wouldn't handle it. To have someone say to me, that they didn't kill themselves because of me, I'd feel weird. Because I'm not a hero nor do I aspire to save the world and its humans. Maybe this is me stepping into Bill's shoes here... but I think it's a heavy thing to be told to you.

If I ever considered killing myself. I'd think of my friends and family. Much as I complain, I love them and I would miss them, and they would suffer if I commited suicide. Then, I'd think of why I am alive, and what is my purpose here. I was granted a life, a purpose, a reason. Should I throw it away at a hardship? I will never get my life back. I won't get a second chance. Can I repair the damage? Can I improve things? Why am I here? If I gave up, I'd feel more of a loser than if I stayed alive.

Wow Lion King music sure inspires me. :laugh:

Amdee

May 16th, 2010, 03:29 PM

That's powerful, but I think deep down it was more than Bill. Bill was a catalyst, a mere reason. I don't know about Bill, but to carry a responsibility of one's life like that, I wouldn't handle it. To have someone say to me, that they didn't kill themselves because of me, I'd feel weird. Because I'm not a hero nor do I aspire to save the world and its humans. Maybe this is me stepping into Bill's shoes here... but I think it's a heavy thing to be told to you.

It is heavy thing to be told. I think we all understand it here. Sometimes I feel like the band has to shut it out a bit, because I think they get exhausted of all the burden they carry on so many lives anbd stories. I think they need to shut it out sometimes to be able to be only BIll, Tom, Georg and Gustav. I don't think they keep themselves as heroes. They (esp. twins) miss the time to be just normal and by that I think partly they miss time to not have spo much responsibility and burden to carry. To be normal, careless and maybe little reckless twenty-year-olds.

Ray: yes, I think so too.

Nereida

May 16th, 2010, 03:42 PM

I think he's amazing because he is so talented. I believe Bill will be much bigger than he is now. I respect him as an artist and as a man who is very confident in himself and knows what he wants career-wise. The same goes for Tom, Georg and Gustav. They are all younger than me and have already experienced so much, are making their dreams come true.... At times, I feel as if I've wasted my life by not accomplishing some of the things I'd love to do.

Yes, i have a feeling, the time will come soon, when everybody discovers them too..sometimes i think would it even be good?I don't want another ELvis, M.J or whatever.
I try not to think about wasting my life.I feel so inspired by them because of my age, they are like lets say a week or two older than me, so i feel i can understand where they are(another delusional thought maybe):eyeroll: and i think it was destiny i found them.I am inspired to change my life.I have already started to think about "what Bill would do" if there are some obsticles.He and TH is always so hungry for so much more, and it makes me more greedy to achieve things aswell, i think its all good.There is only one problem, i don't know what i want, they are lucky to know that since early age...

I agree with the stress they might have because they affect so many people.Sometimes i wish fans would not cry in front of them, so they wouldn't feel bad, but i know its lot to be asked..

Nats

May 16th, 2010, 04:09 PM

Ah, destiny. Another delicate thing. I wonder if it was destiny that I got so involved with them. I wonder if it was destiny that while walking home from college, I had the mental image of doing a photoshoot with my camera (photography is another passion of mine) with the boys in a greek island like Santorini, they'd be in loose summery clothes, relaxed, little to no makeup, sunglasses, and I imagined myself with them all just chatting, eating at a taverna etc. I also imagined myself talking to Bill and pulling his hand to get him down the white stone steps. That fantasy I guess was because of my own fear to talk to the guy I was crushing on. It was impossible to utter a word to him, yet in my head with Bill it was so easy. It was more for entertainment, because it was a spontaneous thought. Then while thinking that, I saw something sparkle on the ground, and picked it up. It was a real silver pendant, a silver dove with its wings spread in flight. No chain though.
I felt a chill down my spine, and that weird feeling when you feel like someone is watching you. Kinda like when you have weird coincidences happen and you get that shiver.
I took it and polished it with toothpaste, and looked up dove symbolism on the internet. Apart from the whole peace meaning, it used to mean true love and soulmate-ism. I had to chuckle to myself at that, because I never expected a dove to symbolise it. Yet every site had that same meaning. I began to almost feel disbelief.

I have it somewhere in my room, but I dare not lose it for the world. I don't wear it often because I usually go in the shower with my necklaces on and I don't want to ruin it.

Is this coincidence? Is it destiny, that I should see that sparkle? What if I had walked by? What does it mean? Why did I, of all people, find it, and why during that moment?

I do not know at the moment, what my beliefs are on destiny and coincidence. But I dare not place too much importance on it, because I know the extent of my dreaming and it is a dangerous ground to tread on. I usually never tell this story to fellow fans, because the mere situation (which began innocently, I never intended for it to happen) just screams CFF and wishful thinking.

musicinmysoul

May 16th, 2010, 05:07 PM

.troy.

May 17th, 2010, 02:41 AM

I don't know what to say, but I've read everything in this thread, and all I can say is that I applaud y'all for voicing your thoughts the way you have :]

Amdee

May 17th, 2010, 04:04 AM

I don't know what to say, but I've read everything in this thread, and all I can say is that I applaud y'all for voicing your thoughts the way you have :]

Thank you and you know you're always welcome to join the convo if you feel like it, right? :)

Mikoto

May 17th, 2010, 04:21 AM

I just want to throw something in on the whole, "They're pretty much my whole life" stuff.

I honestly cannot even think what my world would be like if TH weren't in it. I know that sounds corny, believe me. But like, seriously. I don't know what I would do if I wasn't here, looking at their pictures, watching their interviews, meeting you guys who share my... obsession :laugh:

And don't take this the wrong way, but even if lost interest in their music, or I just moved on and wasn't as in love with it anymore, I don't think I'll ever lose interest in the boys themselves. Do you know what I mean? If I'm having a spasm and don't feel like listening to their music at the moment, I'm not... not interested in them at the same time.

I'm always here, because they fascinate me :3

...Tom, mostly. I'm sorry to the other boys, but Tom ranks over you so hard :laugh:

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say :D

Amdee

May 17th, 2010, 04:45 AM

I think I understand what you mean and that is exactly what I mean by having a personal affection, devotion, connection with them. I know it's a dangerous thought to think that we can somehow be personally connected or even really know them and how can we care if we don't know, but dear lord, I know exactly how it feels.

It bothers me sometimes, because I feel like they affect on my mood too much. I really can't shut down my brain or TH-mode completely. If something dramatic, sad or exciting happens in TH-world, it follws me to my real life affecting on my mood there. As an example: I was at the party with my friends around the time when Humanoid tour ended. Few weeks after that I heard that one other friend of mine had asked from my other friend if everything was okay with me, because I was so distant or more like not present, kind of unusually sinked into my own thoughts the whole night. I didn't notice it myself, but after that other friend told me that, I realised how it might have been true. I was physically there, but my thoughts were circling around the ending tour. I don't know how to feel about it.

Except that I love this thread :grin:

mary k.

May 17th, 2010, 04:58 AM

One thing is worldwide incommon: they hit you and you are gone. I've met very few people who just happen to like them a little. Once you fall for the band, it's really powerful experience for the most of the fans, very emotionally loaded. Why is it so? Just like my friend, who was with me at Helsinki concertm said afterwards: she is the same age as I am, so not a girl anymore. We've been discussing of TH earlier already and I kind of find few same feelings I had, but after the concert she said how his husband said to her half-joking how she became addicted to the band. Why things like these happen to people even at this age? It's really a mystery to me.

hey allow me to join this thread... coming from the same age group... i was really hit when this was mentioned.... Why things like these happen to people even at this age? It's really a mystery to me.. i came to a pause, i looked at myself, and i see how an adult my life really is, then felt that in my heart there is a strong passion to TH, i think we call that here FANDOM.. in my age i should have gotten over this kind of obssession alike NKOTB, 90210 and Fred Savage days.. but then now here i am again, finding myself over attached to a band so many years my junior... sometimes i dont understand it.. but i cant help it if i feel so interested and that they poke my interests so much in ways that makes me happy at times..

it is sufficing to say that it is a mystery... especially at this age.. i dont know if there really is any explanation to this kind of "TH-feelings" that develops in someone who is more adult than its crowd market... when i get to know TH, the attachment isnt something i can control easily.. if it makes you feel happy, you just dont stop...

TO ME, TH is my HAPPY THOUGHT - being an adult is not easy, sometimes we need a diversion to balance things.. when i hear their music, see pics, log into this forum and find "friends" - makes you feel great.

Maybe, its also like falling inlove.. hard to explain... you are so into it, irregardless of age, race, culture, country

.................................................. ....

Amdee

May 17th, 2010, 05:24 AM

Yep. Something like that. Since the days of NKOTB I haven't jhad a band experience like this and during my NKOTB days I was bavely over 10 year old. Then I fussed about marrying Donnie Wahlberg etc. Well, obviously I'm not thinking of marrying Tom Kaulitz, but the enthuastic fire inside is more or less similar. Why? I have no idea. I feel embarrassed, because it reminds me of the curse word CFF. I'm constantly afraid that my connection to the band is seen in a wrong way, that something I say or do is seen as CFF and it just can't go that way at this age. I don't see it that way myself, but I also admit that this affection is strangely strong to have at the age, when I should be an adult.... except are they closing each others off after all? Maybe they can live side by side instead of being each other's threats? Just like you said: to be that happy thought.

And after all: I can't help of who I am. I have two choises: I can either live proudly as who I am with all my flaws, insecurities, immaturities, emotions etc. the way I feel complete or I can live my whole life of pleasing others, choking chains of other people's expections around my neck and always afraid to do & feel "wrong". After all it's all about that choise. I've tried them both in my life.

I wonder if the boys understand this? Sometimes I wish for them to read this thread to truly understand how different and yet similar, deep experiences and emotions are entwined around the band and themselves. The whole fandom is not about screaming "Marry me, Bill/Tom/Georg/Gustav!", but more like also deeper meanings, filling gaps and unsatisfied needs, pondering the roles and balances. And maybe, maybe they could understand why their fandom is - fairly said - larger than life in one sense. They should feel proud of it, because they touch people in a very special way.

boymeetsgirlknowwhattodo

May 17th, 2010, 05:36 AM

I totally understand what some of you are saying.

I've always told my friends that if I could do something with the boys for one day, I would totally say hang out with them. ALL of them, even though my fav is Tom. I don't want to marry any of them, I don't wanna hook up. I just wanna sit and hang out and talk and maybe have some unhealthy food and just talk like friends. I would love to know them a little more than what I see on TV, what I hear in interviews, what I read in interviews. That's the most I could ask for as a fan, just to get the chance to speak to them like a normal person talking to 4 other human beings. It's funny because I have 3 brothers and I can so imagine how hanging out with the boys would be like, because the boys remind me of my brothers sometimes, when they're just goofing around. I remember one episode of THTV where Tom is fooling around with Georg and pretending to stab him blindly with a fork, and my brothers totally do that to each other all the time.

It would be nice to hang out with the boys like that. God knows how much I grin like a fool when I see the boys happy and relaxed in interviews. And I know this might come across as stalker and irrational behavior but it does hit me to an extent whenever I see the boys unhappy. I know, it's illogical, but that's how I think some fans connect to the band. I can't imagine my life without TH either. Not that I wouldn't be able to survive, they have yet to influence me to that level, but yea, life would be a little duller without TH. :)

mary k.

May 17th, 2010, 05:45 AM

TO AMDEE:

i also have no idea... sometimes i also feel shy but i dont wanna give up or lose whats giving me happy thoughts.. thats why we stay, thats why we entertain this affection and interest towards them.... we cannot deny ourselves of what we truly feel and want, this is what we want, like u said, CHOICE... im just glad that i am not alone in this, theres you and maybe a lot more from here also that i havent met.. atleast now our "group" is increasing, we wont feel strange bout it, but support each other ;)

yes sometimes i also think and hope that they are reading this and that they dont generalize their fans but get to know the levels of fandom they have and true it will make them feel proud and great to know that they have the best fans..

Mikoto

May 17th, 2010, 05:59 AM

...I'm constantly afraid that my connection to the band is seen in a wrong way, that something I say or do is seen as CFF and it just can't go that way at this age...
Don't worry about it. I think we all have those moments; where we have a spasm over a Tom/Bill/Georg/Gustav picture that we see, and we just feel like ripping the real person to shreds (in a good way ;)), or wish to God that we could just be a Les Gibson guitar for one minute... :laugh:

It's okay, and I don't think we'll ever be able to stop those moments with TH >;D

...you are so into it, irregardless of age, race, culture, country...
My sentiments exactly. I am pretty much always astounded at how Tokio Hotel have really travelled. Do you think they know, themselves, how many people, everywhere, really love them?

I mean really... they're a German band. And I love them, in Australia. Like... it's hard to explain, but it just blows my mind how fair they've spread out, you know?

:grin:

...I tried not bolding my writing. Does it look okay?

Amdee

May 17th, 2010, 06:19 AM

.troy.

May 17th, 2010, 08:55 AM

I know! I feel so global, so international, so amazed sometimes, when I discuss with people from USA, Australia, Philippines, Italy, Russia, China, Sweden, Poland, Germany... and we are all connected to each other because of these 4 German guys. People all around the world. It's truly amazing for me. It really gets to me, when I read online real time updates from all around the world, no matter where they go. It's like traveling with them and meeting new people, who are yet like old friends during that journey, because we all travel with the band around the world through the local fans.

About being the best fans... This picture has to be one of the most stopping and honestly really touching to me during my TH "career". It's a banner sheet from Lille, FR (if I remember correctly).

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af214/Amdee/Default2/wirsind.jpg

For those of you, who don't know what it says, it's "We are always here!"

I want to see that poster as a sincere promise for them: no matter how f*cked up things might be sometimes, no matter what happens or who hates, there will be people always standing by their side. And they can count on that. There are people who don't turn their backs. I want - no, I DEMAND - them to value this banner, because for me it's not only from fans in Lille, it's from this fandom. If they count on us, we count on them. This fandom won't let them down. I want to believe it so hard.

Am I being stupid and naive here? :???:

Don't forget about Taiwan :P

I don't think you're being naive! I agree with you completely. I have mixed feelings about the fandom as a whole- sometimes it irritates me, but at other times I think that it's one of the best fandoms in the world. It's not hard to get sucked into the frenzy of a band, but it can be hard to keep interest in them and stay loyal to them. For the most part I think that TH have an extremely loyal fanbase. I myself have been a really really loyal fan since I was 12, and I'm almost 16. There are people that have supported them since they were Devilish. I think it's pretty amazing that I've been with them for such a long time. I usually have phases where I have a favourite band for a few months, maybe a year, and then I find something I like more. That's never happened to me with TH, they've always ranked the same with me. There's something about them that draws people in and hooks them. Maybe it's just their personalities, how interesting they are... or maybe it's something different. I don't know, their pull must be different for everyone.

I just think it's so remarkable that people from all over the world- from different countries, people of different cultures, ethnicities ages, backgrounds, families etc... are so faithful to them and have been able to come together and support four people who not only provide fantastic music for us, but something else, something much more that I can't quite put my finger on.

I love that banner for the reasons you stated, Amdee, it is a message that represents the entire fandom; and I think that even though we (including the boys) put up with a lot of frustrating s*it, we will always (hopefully) remain loyal to each other.

Nats

May 17th, 2010, 11:54 AM

Yep. I think we are very united as a front. Even on other band forums I'm active on, we have good relationships, we understand each other, but there isn't that... tightness in the bond between us. As a whole, as two people or a small group you can find closeness. But as a whole fandom, we kinda drift apart.

But not here. I can see how tight we are. How we can strike funny conversations with members who are new or who don't really post. How after like, a day, you feel like you've known them for years. How we meet people from all over the world.

I think it's not just the band. The band isn't really responsible for the actions of ourselves. They don't inspire me to be friendly to others, or discuss. I want to do this because I enjoy it. Because it feels like home here. When things happen in the forum or the band, it affects me too. But I that this bond, TH didn't create. We did. TH was merely a meeting place, a date for a reunion. We all come together every day here, at this forum, and have a grand time. :grin:

musicinmysoul

May 17th, 2010, 01:31 PM

I was going to write something but I thinkI forgot the most of it..

Anyway... TH started very young, and they are still young, Teens, and adults all over the world can relate to them and their songs. They mean something to them. Bill says, capital letters, that it´s okay to be different, you don´t have to be like everyone else. And I think we all like the twin moments, how incredibly close they are. And fascinates over how different identical twins can be. One of the reasons why I like TH so much is Bill and Tom. And not for the good looks. It´s kind of fascinating how different they look for being identical twins (but I don´t want to discuss that again), and I just love how close they are and sometimes I wish me and my sister were that close. We are very close, but not that close. And all the little things that show much close they are, I just love it.

I can feel a bit too old to be this into a band sometimes too. I`m not going to say I´m obsessed, cause I don´t think I am. And I´m still the sane person I´ve always been. I will peobably end up with a younger guy, but not because of TH, When I was younger it was "everyone is so old" now it´s more "everyone is so young", Most of my favorite actors are younger than me, and the artists that I listen to the most right now, is younger than me. But I feel more like I´m 20 than almost 27... I wish I could go back in time, have the same experiences I have today, but be like 20 again. I don´t want to get old...

Another part of being a fan of TH, I think, is the fans. I don´t listen to the music everyday. I don´t read everything about them. But I get on the forum pretty much everyday cause I like the forum, I like most of the people here, and I like discussing things with you. And if it weren´t for the forum I woudn´t have made a new friend, cause I would never have met her.

.troy.

May 18th, 2010, 01:33 AM

Another part of being a fan of TH, I think, is the fans. I don´t listen to the music everyday. I don´t read everything about them. But I get on the forum pretty much everyday cause I like the forum, I like most of the people here, and I like discussing things with you. And if it weren´t for the forum I woudn´t have made a new friend, cause I would never have met her.

That's exactly how I am! I DO love the band and their music, although I don't always listen to them. I get on the forum every day because of love the people here, and I love that I've made such good friends with people that are all over the world :D

Isn't it funny? The thread started with a conversation about Bill and how he likes control for various reasons, and now we're talking about how connected all the fans are :]

ray_ray2384

May 18th, 2010, 01:57 AM

Last time I listened to Humanoid was over two weeks ago. But, I watched the Rolling Stone acoustic performance of Automatic today. I don't listen to TH's music all the time. but, i really enjoying talking to the ToHo friends i've made since 2008. I think that's what I enjoy the most out of being a part of this fandom. Well, I like talking about TH too, obviously! :lol:

Amdee

May 18th, 2010, 04:35 AM

I think that is a great combo :).

I listen to TH quite a lot. REcently I've re-found Schrei and it's been in active playing in my stereos. Although I mostly listen to music when I'm in my car anyway. I guess listening to Schrei so much has make me thinking about their growing up a lot, the path they've walked (and the path this fandom has). I'm such a n00b myself and sometimes I feel that how can I speak about things like this with just 14-15 months experience of being a fan, but I still do.

I don't really know, how to explain TH's music's role for me. I listen to them regularly, because they are good, but I also do that to feel.... closer to them. I can't really explain. Like when I listen to Bill singing it's closer, more real to me than just thinking. It's different kind of connection and there again quite unique for me.

But it's also true that this fandom means a lot to me. Maybe partly also for the reasons that it's one of the only places where I can talk about TH. Only place where people actually want to hear, what I have to say about them or what do they do etc. In my real life it's mostly ignoring of the subject. But this is cool.... D*mn annoying fandom at times, but still so great place to be.

musicinmysoul

May 18th, 2010, 12:16 PM

I haven´t bought any of the albums yet, blame that on not working so much. But I will get the albums. And then I know I will listen to them as much as I can. Probably put them in the CD player in my car..

And I have Schrei as my ringtone. My parent´s don´t like it at all, but my friend thought it was cool. She likes them, but I don´t really think she is a fan. But she said she likes them.

Hannele, I don´t think you should think like that. I haven´t been a fan for that long either. It doesn´t stop me from having feelings, opinions...

Nereida

May 18th, 2010, 01:17 PM

Since the last time i came to this thread , i have really felt the peace inside me , just talking through it all has made me realise everything.My attitude in my head has changed.There was this desire that i need to get "something" from them.I read a sentence from a psychlogy book-"I don't need to desire, but i can care." So i was trying to apply it, but now i have succeeded, thanx to this thread..How did it happen so fast, is beyond me..

Anyways, i kind of am in a stage where i only listen to TH.But i think i need to make a selection to those songs which are more positive like HCTH, dogs unleashed... i don't wanna say that other songs make me depressed, but i think its not gonna end well if i listen to phantomrider all day long:D..There are just too many emotions in those songs.Its like a good candy you can't eat too much:)
Amdee , if you are talking about being a fan for only 15 months, then what should a 3-month-er like me think?:laugh:
I shamelessly call myself a fan:twisted:

Amdee

May 18th, 2010, 01:35 PM

Nereida

May 18th, 2010, 01:52 PM

I tend to compare myself for those people, who have followed the band from Schrei-days, even from Devilish-times. I feel so... So arrogant to come here and say that I think I know something, because I haven't "been there" if you know whsat I mean? How can I talk about loyalty, when some of us have been here for 5 years? I think I should just stop comparing... Yes, definitely.

Blame it on the sucky TH management who was doing a " great" job even then -u didn't even know about them!:P No actually i think we all understand you..I don't know how to comfort you, you can always think how Bill is a David Bowie fan, but he wasn't even born when David was already workin it.:-D

Nats

May 18th, 2010, 02:27 PM

Amdee, put it this way. You've got more sense, opinion, and spunk (no perverted pun intended :laugh: ) than some fans that have been since Schrei. Some are still as crazy, some are gone, some don't bother. Some just get even more obsessed, some turn to haters, some complain.

But a good quality fan has no "work experience". A good fan like you, like Nereida, like all the newer fans, are what matter. Just because another fan is older, doesn't mean they are better. Perhaps they are loyal, to have stuck it this long, but hey let's hope they plan to stick even longer. :grin:

And info on the band you can find at clicks of a mouse. So it's not that hard to learn about them.

Amdee

May 18th, 2010, 02:53 PM

Yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean. And I'm sorry if this came out as complaining or whining. I was just wondering who am I to say things. I don't want to say things I don't mean or promise something I can't keep. That's why I want to think before I say am I going to stick with the band "forever". No, no I'm not. Tokio Hotel will end some day. It happens to all the bands. We will all move on. There will be no "Tokio Hotel forever!". It's cruel and I don't want to thnk about it too much right now, but it's also a reality. Therefore I can't say "TH 4-eva!", because it will not be so. It's interesting (and for me essential) to think through the commitment I'm doing with the way I word our my affection. How long will my loyalty last? How long it should last? Do I remember the band Tokio Hotel when I'm 70? Many people may say that I take things too seriously, but for me it is serious thing to stay true to my our statements. I don't want to promise something I can't keep. It's all about that and that's why the question of loyalty is so important to me.

I remember when someone said somewhere how she listened in Hamburg or Oberhausen concert this year (I can't remember which one) how "the old school fans" were having nostalgic discussions of the band from the days when they were seeing them performing DDM for the first times and how they've grown up etc. It makes me take my hat off for those people. I wish I could have been there, but I wasn't. I'm not bitter, but I feel humble, I feel like I owe something to someone. I feel like being Daniel to Mr. Miyagi or Luke Skywalker to Yoda. Still in training, still...eager to learn and understand, but also aware of the fact that I will never have that all. I can find every trivia from Internet, but I can't live that time. I wish I could have lived that time.

I... I miss the memories I could have had, but I never did.

Does that make any sense?

Anyways, sidetracks again... What else do we have in storage to discuss about?

Nereida

May 18th, 2010, 03:28 PM

I... I miss the memories I could have had, but I never did

So many fans who were there in the beginning of TH, have quit.So many fans who were there at the start have nostalgic feelings about the band they were used to and now are not happy about the " change".I think being a new fan has its pros, you are free from those ideas of how they used to be..Maybe if you were there from the start you would have given up already, and missed out all of those great experiences you have with them now?

I don't know how long i will be their fan.And what is loyalty/being a fan-should i vote for them, buy their cd-s, listen to their music illegally or can i just attend their concerts and be called loyal?If given the opportunity to go to a concert, then that i know i woud do even if i am..say 50.Listen to their music regulary? Not so sure about that.

ray_ray2384

May 18th, 2010, 04:57 PM

Nats

May 18th, 2010, 05:44 PM

Amdee, I know you weren't complaining. =)

Hmmm. I'm pretty old as a fan, but I haven't lived any up close experience with them till the MTV Day concert, so in that way I'm newer than even you, Amdee! :laugh:

I have to say, I too take my hat off to them. But if they aren't fans anymore, it's a shame. It happens, I don't expect to trap them all into TH and keep them hostage.

As for them breaking up... I admit I would be upset. A big part of me would be kinda... lost? Because when I come home from college, or while I'm here, this forum and the band are on my mind. Not in a twisted way, but in a YAY FORUM! kind of way. Without them as an active band I'd feel kinda without focus. Like, what do I do today?
It's sort of weird to type it out as though they are a mere pastime, but it's deeper than that.
However if they broke up for an understandable reason, and not something silly. I'd understand. If it made them happy to be without the responsibility of TH, then it makes me happy.

dejavu711

May 18th, 2010, 05:50 PM

If they break up they better keep this forum running D:
Lol!

Amdee

May 18th, 2010, 06:05 PM

WHEN they break up (let's face it: it'll happen some day)...

I'd be upset. I don't really know how I'd react, how would it be really. I'm terrible of saying goodbyes and it would be one veery difficult one. I think I'd feel a bit same as you, Nats. They play so big role in my everyday lifde that suddenly I'd have not only more "empty" time in my hands, but more some kind of emptiness. They are not my life, but they do are a big part of it. They are making the rhythm to may day on their own part. Suddenly I would lost a piece of me, in a way. I'd always have CD's and videos etc., but the feeling of never again getting anything new from TH would be really upsetting. I wouldn't jump from the roof, but I would be a bit lost for a while until I'd found a balance again. It would (will) hurt. I know it.

Like I¨'ve said earlier at some point: I am here for a reason, they came into my life for a reason. There is somke need in me that they fill. I don't know what that need is, but they answer in some call I make. If it's taken away from me, then it's natural that suddenly that need, that call leaves without an answer and it aches.

But as said, if it makes them happy, then it makes me happy. I can't insist them to do against their will even if it will hurt me and many others. They do, what's best for THEM. When it comes that their paths go on different directions, I will accept it. Lost and hurt, but accept it. It will take some time to recover, but it would not be the end of the world.

And it's not just about the band. It's the community. Losing that would hurt as bad.

dejavu711

May 18th, 2010, 06:09 PM

ray_ray2384

May 18th, 2010, 06:17 PM

I firmly believe the band, Bill specifically, will greatly influence this world. This is just the beginning. I won't dive deeper into the subject.

Amdee

May 18th, 2010, 06:20 PM

vatefairefoutre

May 18th, 2010, 06:21 PM

It's not my secret, found it on Tumblr. But, can anyone relate? How important is Tokio Hotel to you?

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2ld5geECp1qc0mtvo1_400.jpg

If TH were to break up, how would it affect you?

omg! I would totally go into a mini depression. no lie. and be really bored. HAHA! and I would slowly heal some and find some other band or interest to occupy my time with, and hopefully it'd be almost or just as fun. I have ALWAYS been like that. like... I always have had a favorite band or bands that I enjoy being involved in and hearing news from and seeing live a lot and stuff. it's like... one of my favorite hobbies/pastimes of mine I guess you could say.

and thankfully none of them have ever broken up in the middle of my interest with them... members have come and gone and other dramas have taken place... but none of the bands that have ever been like this to me have broken up or even taken a long hiatus or anything while I was really involved with them (and hopefully it never happens! haha). I just slowly kinda moved on to another band. but with Tokio Hotel... I've been involved with them longer than I have any other band. idk what it is about them... they are just really fun and always interesting to me for some reason, oh and the great friends I've made probably helps a whole lot as well!

Nats

May 18th, 2010, 06:28 PM

I wonder though how their individual careers would progress if they broke up. And personal lives, feelings, their relationship with each other.

ray_ray2384

May 18th, 2010, 06:55 PM

Bill will remain in the entertainment/music business. I can see him in fashion.
Tom will also remain in the industry...but have a more behind the scenes role.
Georg might join another band/seek different musical endeavors.
Gustav will marry and have many beautiful German babies! :lol: I do think he'll remain playing his drums....in another band. Maybe even open up his own school of music, become a drum teacher.

All in all, I do think the boys will remain the best of friends. They've known each other for so long. The bond they share will last for a long time. Unless, they all end hating each other and never speak again! Lol!!!

dejavu711

May 18th, 2010, 07:00 PM

Georg will become a dentist. Lol

Sim_1

May 18th, 2010, 07:07 PM

Tom will fufill his life long ambition of being a stripper but onli wen he's not in the studio.
Producer by day, Porn Star by night. Lol

Amdee

May 18th, 2010, 07:10 PM

No. Georg opens that strip club and Tom works there (arm dancing with the pole?) and on his freetime he'll make porn movies (Tom Kaulitz sex tape #56 etc.)

I'll answer a serious answrr soon...

dejavu711

May 18th, 2010, 07:18 PM

No. Georg opens that strip club and Tom works there (arm dancing with the pole?) and on his freetime he'll make porn movies (Tom Kaulitz sex tape #56 etc.)

I'll answer a serious answrr soon...

Oh, yes. The Arm Dance is ultimate turn on :laugh:

boymeetsgirlknowwhattodo

May 18th, 2010, 07:23 PM

Oh, yes. The Arm Dance is ultimate turn on :laugh:

Hey!! No making fun of the arm dance. Anything but the arm, you hear? :vmad:

Amdee

May 18th, 2010, 07:40 PM

I wonder though how their individual careers would progress if they broke up. And personal lives, feelings, their relationship with each other.

I agree mostly with Ray.

I think they'll stay friends outside the band. They've been through so much, how could they not stay? Maybe the dynamics chance, but So many ups and downs must bound them together as friends even without TH.

Bill will stay in a spotlight. Bill lives in a spotlight. He is meant to be there. Maybe not as a singer, but modeling, fashion, that kind of stuff... and I'm sure it can also make him happy. Maybe he sings on his freetime, as a hobby, but after TH I see Bill moving more towards modeling and fashion. And he sings always in a backroom. :grin:

Tom will not be in a spotlight like Bill. He'll stay in entertainment business, but more on a background. He also sticks next to Bill somehow, but more like collaboration kind of thing. Maybe they create a combo, where Tom is more of the business and Bill is more of visioner, creater. So they can balance their differencies?

Georg and Gustav can either play in different bands or do something completely different. Maybe I see them more like playing as a hobby and doing something else for living. But they play, definitely.

G's could get involved with other bands, but I don't see twins being part of any other band than TH. They are, they've lived Tokio Hotel... I can't see them being able to completely move on and start all over with other people.

I think BIll will be the one having the biggest crisis and change resistance, when this all ends. He drags Tom with him. Honestly I think Tom could survive better without Bill in that change, but like always, they are going thios through together and Bill will pull him with him. But they also find their new place in this world together. I also think that it will be important for esp. Bill to find his new direction soon and get his feet on solid ground,. because I think BIll suffers if he has to live, drift without direction and spot on a spotlight.

I think twins futures depend very much on their relationships. It gets more complicated if other people are involved.

dejavu711

May 18th, 2010, 07:53 PM

Yeah, I could totally see Gustav being the drummer for a different band. Cuz Gustav loves his drummin' yo.

Nereida

May 19th, 2010, 01:28 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSRJM6bHA-k
What do you think about that?
OOooo and if you scroll down you can see my comment. It got 6 thumbs up :laugh: My screen name is dejahenry711

:???::shock1: This is something i find deeply disturbing.
I have read a David Icke book myself and it is total brainfu*k.It bothers me how many people exist who believe in this and i am afraid of what they are capable of doing because of this belief.Suddenly i feel that all those bodyguards TH have should always follow them and there should be more of them.

Mikoto

May 19th, 2010, 03:57 AM

Things like that video Deja posted kind of freak me out. I don't believe in them, but what disturbs me is that others do, so strongly. But TH isn't... evil. What a crock of ****e.

...If TH broke up... when they break up (hopefully in the VERY VERY distant future) ...I don't even want to think about it.

mary k.

May 19th, 2010, 04:16 AM

Yeah, but sometimes bands break up and get back together :^D *tries to be somewhat positive* Lol.

And I know of yall are into symbolism, so here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSRJM6bHA-k
What do you think about that?
OOooo and if you scroll down you can see my comment. It got 6 thumbs up :laugh: My screen name is dejahenry711

oh come on! this video is DISTURBING.. you know y? bec whoever made it and did the analogy of the symbolism of TH to satanic conspiracy must be bored with his life bec he has all the time in the world for it.. come on! do u think TH did that intentionally? long ago when they made their logo they were still kids, what do they know of it.. its just coincident that there are "comparisons" for argument.. but it wasnt intentional... never in my mind did i think that TH has this underlying intention.. they just wanna make good music, good PR campaigns and live their dreams.. no offense, but this is just what i think.

as to bands breaking up - i dont see that happening any soon.. they love this present life and career too much that they have so many more plans in the many years to come ahead of them... it is their priority above all - above love, friends, family, school, even above their privacy..

and i dont want to entertain even just the thought of them breaking up and going on separate lives, it would make me sad imagining that you can't reach them anymore the same way you do now.

.................................................. .....

musicinmysoul

May 19th, 2010, 05:19 AM

musicinmysoul & Nereida, thank you for your support. I'm sure we all can be fans, no matter how long our "TH-history" is. And I'm so happy that this thread and our aimless pondering has clarify something for you, Nereida!

I tend to compare myself for those people, who have followed the band from Schrei-days, even from Devilish-times. I feel so... So arrogant to come here and say that I think I know something, because I haven't "been there" if you know whsat I mean? How can I talk about loyalty, when some of us have been here for 5 years? I think I should just stop comparing... Yes, definitely.

Yes, you definitely should stop comparing I don´t think there´s any point in doing that. I don´t thikn they have more right to have opinions or feel more loyal or whateve, just because they have been fans for several years. You (and me, and all of us) still have your opinions, your own image of the boys and how you think they are. and no one can come and say that you are wrong. At least that´s how I see it. Me and let´s say Lucky, for example, maybe doesn´t have them same image of the boys. But if we don´t, it doesn´t mean one of us is right and one of us is wrong.

And Nereida. when I get a new album I can listen to pratically only that one for like 6 months....

musicinmysoul

May 19th, 2010, 05:26 AM

Mikoto

May 19th, 2010, 05:56 AM

boymeetsgirlknowwhattodo

May 19th, 2010, 05:59 AM

Hmmmmm. Kay, I won't deny it, I'm really into symbolism and I really dig all this "artists-linked-to-the-Illuminati" controversy. I don't entirely believe it, but it's fun to follow and it's always interesting to see how people think and analyze. I do agree, though, that lately all these conspiracy theories are getting out of hand. I mean, the name 'Devilish' doesn't imply they're devil-worshippers. I bet if these people took the time to actually research about TH and their origins and roots and why they chose that name, they wouldn't be making such a big fuss out of it. So far artists that have been linked to the Illuminati are Lady GaGa, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Jay Z, Kanye, Rihanna and now TH. I dunno. It's getting out of hand.

The analysis of the 'Sweet Dreams' video is interesting, though. And 'Russian Roulette'. You guys can try Youtubing the videos together with the words 'demonic' and all sorts of videos about subliminal messages will appear. Crazy or not, I find them interesting. :)

Amdee

May 19th, 2010, 06:24 AM

I agree.
The first person I started to like on this forum, is Hannele. I´ve always liked the way you write, and when you make a seious post, it´s alwyas written well, and it always make sense.

My sentiments exactly >;D
Hannele? (Or Amdee to me... :laugh:) has always gotten wise/cool points from me :)

Aww...*blushing* Thank you so much, darlings! You are both so wonderful! That's all I can say.
And I'm very happy that you decided to go with me to a concert, musicinmysoul (I use your nick, because I don't know if you want your real name here), because it was wonderful to meet you and I really hope we meet up again!

Aboit the symbolism... It is interesting in a way and there are some conspricary theories I believe myself (not religious ones) like couple 9/11 theories. However, I find it sometimes a bit disturbing and offensive how strongly and without any knowledge some people want to attack on other people. Everyone has their own beliefs, but I don't think it gives right to judge so brutally and directly other people.

musicinmysoul

May 19th, 2010, 06:27 AM

I enjoyed it very much too Hannele, and it´s okay to use my real name :) And I really hope we will meet again soon too :)

boymeetsgirlknowwhattodo

May 19th, 2010, 06:44 AM

However, I find it sometimes a bit disturbing and offensive how strongly and without any knowledge some people want to attack on other people. Everyone has their own beliefs, but I don't think it gives right to judge so brutally and directly other people.

Rock on!

I agree completely.

.troy.

May 19th, 2010, 09:49 AM

ChikaXD

May 19th, 2010, 01:54 PM

Why do you think they met with Jay-z? He is a well known big member of the iluminati and he was probably seeing if TH are worthy of being members. ( I don't think they are though because they arent powerful enough) I am a big believer of conspericies.

And if TH broke up I'd be sad for a little bit and then get over it. I'm not big on attachments.

ray_ray2384

May 19th, 2010, 02:22 PM

ChikaXD

May 19th, 2010, 03:33 PM

According to Bill/Tom, Jay-Z and Nicole S. went to see the boys perform at one of their 2008 LA concerts. After it ended, they had dinner together. Who knows what went down. But, Tom really likes Jay-Z and promotes his music all the time. Hmmm.....maybe he wants in?! :lol: For TH to be as powerful as some of the biggest music acts today. They need a promo engine loud enough to speak to the masses.

Yeah if Jay wanted to he could have made them superstars. But I think he did'nt because he did not see them fit to be members. Its all really exclusive. Or mabye the guys declined his offer. Hmm...

Nereida

May 19th, 2010, 04:18 PM

or maybe there just aint things like iluminati:???:
that is possible aswell

ChikaXD

May 19th, 2010, 04:42 PM

or maybe there just aint things like iluminati:???:
that is possible aswell

We all believe what we want to believe. Some people believe in Jesus and some believe in things like the illuminati. There is no right or wrong answer :)

Nereida

May 19th, 2010, 04:52 PM

Exactly, we believe in things we WANT to believe.Psychology is a powerful thing...

There is always a right or wrong answer, we just don't know it.

And i am sorry . i am gonna remove myself from here and try to become more tolerant. i am just afraid for TH, thats all, and maybe i shouldn't be.

vatefairefoutre

May 19th, 2010, 05:05 PM

oh that Illuminati crap is so stupid to me. hahahaha. the first time I ever heard of that was when I was listing off rappers I liked to this girl at my school and she's all "OH I don't like Jay Z cuz he's part of the Illuminati" and I was like "......... what the dick?!" :laugh: :roll:

dejavu711

May 19th, 2010, 05:14 PM

ray_ray2384

May 19th, 2010, 05:16 PM

Yeah if Jay wanted to he could have made them superstars. But I think he did'nt because he did not see them fit to be members. Its all really exclusive. Or mabye the guys declined his offer. Hmm...

hmmmm.....is right. I"m going to DM you later!

transparent elegance

May 19th, 2010, 06:04 PM

I think if there WERE an Illuminati then they'd most likely have wanted the boys in 2008. The boys may not have been powerful here but, hello, they had power in Europe. Wouldn't the Illuminati want to expand?

And I don't believe in the Illuminati btw, or rather, even if there is one, it's irrelevant to my life.

But I'd like to quote Sandra Cisneros here, "Sometimes a dog is just a dog." People can get meaning out of anything, and it doesn't mean that the meaning was intentional or is supposed to be there.

boymeetsgirlknowwhattodo

May 20th, 2010, 07:59 AM

Taylor Swift? :laugh: Yeah, You Belong with Me played backwards says "YOU WILL WORSHIP SATAN." :laugh:

Oh gosh, I will never listen to '2 is Better than 1' the same way again. All I can think of now is Taylor Swift's relationship with Satan, lol.

Nats

May 20th, 2010, 03:54 PM

I tend to call Amdee by her forum name, even if I know her real name. I can't explain why, but it's like when you talk to a superior or older person or stranger, and you use words like Mister, Madam, Sir, or when you adress royalty. :laugh: Amdee is like her royal title or something, I'm weird. :laugh:

About the Masonic thing. Bah. What a load of waffle. :laugh:

I'm starting to think that Bill is the main power behind TH. I used to think both the twins wanted the fame and glory. But maybe, Tom is more like the G's than we thought? Now that I think about it, Tom is so suitable for a backstage, business job. Besides the guitar, obviously. I don't think he'd mind if he didn't have all the excess that comes with what he has now.
It just seems like Bill is the one. He's always stepping forward, always being the face, always pulling the band's strings. He is the puppetmaster of this group, and it's with the will of his puppets. I don't think, after all those years, they would be scared to say no to him if they disagreed, but I think he's the ventriloquist that makes the dolls speak. I'm trying to describe what I mean. I know some people just have that craving for fame, and the love for music. But I think... apart from having it in you, it also develops from life experiences.

Do you think that despite being twins, they have a younger brother/older brother dynamic? I've always seen it like that. I know they are identical and yada yada, but they always strike me as older and younger. Being the youngest of three, I can maybe imagine Bill's position if it were like that. Because, I can't quite see them as equal.

Amdee

May 20th, 2010, 05:55 PM

If I understand what you mean, I've always thought so, Nats.

For how I see it, Bill is the puppetmaster. He has the most power in the band and... should I say this?... I think he is a bit spoiled with that power. He is very dominant person hiding under very sweet cover. He is not bad or using people, but he is stubborn, he has a strong will, he can manipulate and he has natural charisma, which makes it easy for him to make people eventually work his way. And Bill has certain boldness. He has balls and I think Bill attacks rather than withdraws.

I think G's have learned to deal with Bill during the years. Not afraid of him, but knowing that it's useless to argue with him, because I'm quite sure Bill isn't the one giving up fiirst. I actually watched these same things today when I watched COC. Anyways, Bill leads, because it's natural to him and because people let him lead. It's interesting, because Bill doesn't have much of basic natural leader's "signs" in him. He is sweet, quite femme, not presenting a powerful, masculine, raw leader. Yet he has the nature of one for sure.

Now what is interesting is Tom's role in this. I love to (over-)analyze twins' relationship. I don't see them equal in a way some might think they are. There is definitely a big brother/little brother roles going on. Tom would do anything for Bill. Whether it's given to him or he has taken it himself, but Tom has big brother's responsibility. I think he feels a need to "protect" Bill somehow, to make Bill happy. He takes his role very seriously. Tom also reminds it often in interviews etc. with certain pride. He may normally be "whatever" to Bill's tricks, but his behavior in situations where something is threatening Bill some way, he takes it hard. Like Bill's surgery or car crash. They both seemed to be very tough for Tom.

In that roleing I think Bill has Tom a bit wrapped around his finger. They may fight regularly, but I think it's Tom who follows Bill, not other way round. It's just this feeling I get from them: Tom would do anything for Bill, he would follow Bill anywhere. And happily. I don't think Tom even questions that. He is fine being in Bill's "shadow", the "second man", Bill's wingman. It's not very clear, but I think it's there... and somehow I think Bill knows it too.

I think very few people says No to Bill eventually. They may say it, but Bill will get what we wants. Sooner or later. No, I don't think there is an equality, but there is a balance.

ray_ray2384

May 20th, 2010, 06:12 PM

Mikoto

May 20th, 2010, 06:12 PM

Illuminati? *googles*

...

:laugh: Oh yeah, that's totally TH. I'm sorry to whoever was talking about this seriously, but anyone who actually takes this seriously is just... :laugh: How retarded. And like, Jay-Z being part of the 'Illuminati', what, he just goes home and sits in a big throne with a robe on and just discusses how to control the world?

It's all too 'Angels & Demons' for me, honestly. :lol:

ray_ray2384

May 20th, 2010, 06:16 PM

Google won't give you suffice knowledge on the subject.

Nats

May 20th, 2010, 06:20 PM

Yay you managed to write down my thoughts much better than I did. :laugh:

Yep. I think... having that charisma and aura comes from being the younger brother in the family dynamic. I admit, with shame, I am also like that. :laugh: Wants to get their own way, stubborn, and knows who to go to when they want something. Just like I know to avoid my middle sister for things, because we'll just argue, so I go to my big sister (who was always like a second mum to me when I was growing up) and soften her up. I'm not using her or abusing our relationship in any way, I'm just turning on my "little sis charm". The sweet, big eyed, pweaaaaase? kind of look. :laugh:

I also think Tom is wrapped around Bill's finger. Bill has admitted it, what he does to get his own way (in an interview). He's just irresistable, and it's hard to say "no" to him. But I don't think it's one-sided, not that I'm implying you said that. In Your Shadow is a perfect example of Bill's side of things. He'd be nothing without his big brother, even if he himself leads the show. I think he still needs his big brother's protection, presence, and consent on things. He says he doesn't care and that they both do their own things, but deep inside he's still caring. When Bill called Tom during the Chantelle deal, I thought it was a similar thing. Those ten minutes have made a world of difference, imo.

I think that a third sibling would be very hard to accept. Their bond is already so tight and close, that a middle party is just an outsider, no matter how related they are. In a way I can imagine it myself. Before I came along, it was my older sis and middle sis, they hung out, had tea parties, and my middle sis was the young one. When I was born, suddenly attention turned on me. My big sis was like mum 2, and my middle sis and I have argued like cat and dog. One time during the most stupid argument, my middle sis said "You're only being like this because Kats (the older sis) is here, you're trying to show off to her!" and I had to laugh cause that was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. Yet is showed some insecurity, like being abandoned.
Though hardly at any degree to sit down and talk about, but she's always been like that.

So I think that... in any kind of relationship, it will be just those two. I think romantic is excempt from that, because a romantic relationship is a different dynamic.

Amdee

May 20th, 2010, 06:26 PM

I've always thought Bill's power was subtle. Many will look at him and think he's harmless. But, just as you said, underneath the sweet cover lays a dominant and manipulative personality.

Amdee, I think Tom is perfectly fine with supporting Bill, doing what pleases him because he loves/trusts his brother. I can see the same twin dynamic becoming a part of their romantic relationships.

Yep. And that gives their relationship a balance. Balance is easily seen same as equality, but I think balance can be also a shift of power in a way that they complete each other like this. I'm scared to use words dominant and submissive here, because for me they are... wel, they mean something else what I mean here :twisted: ... but their power is in balance like that. It's pretty complicated, because Tom isn't submissive as "normal" way because of his big brother status, but it's more like Bill controls him through his role as a little brother. Being sweet and harmless and "innocent" can be huge power as well.

I must admit that I didn't see Bill's power and dominance so clearly when I watched COC before, but now it was an eye opener in a way. It was a tiny shock to see how Bill dominated every situation he was in. Every single frame of a film he was in, he was in control, in a center, dominating. I watched the people working for them and even if their job is to "serve" Bill, it was somkehow different. It was more like... hmm.. not worshipping him, but like they were happy that Bill pulled their strings. It's like... people willingly give themselves to Bill's hands and I don't know how he does it. Very, very interesting...